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Old 01-01-2011, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Illinois
3,047 posts, read 8,333,127 times
Reputation: 1374

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Hey, I'm from Chicago. And unlike people who pretend and say "I have friends who are gay" I really do. I work with them all day long and I run marathons with them. I'm from the Chi, 10 million people around this city. Gays all over. Holding hands and making out on the El. Good for them just like it is good for anyone who can find that with another person. However, however...I am convinced that certain people are born with a tendency to be gay. They are not born gay. What they feel could have easily been influenced to go another direction earlier in life but it didn't.

Let's say there are 6 billion people on Earth even though there is more. Heck, there are more than 2 billion in India and China alone. And that's just the surface of one continent. The point is out of 6 billion people, let's say 300 million are gay. I think that you can double that number to 600 million as far as the sector of the population that was born with a tendency to be gay but for whatever reasons, the influences in their life made them go "straight." It's nothing to be ashamed of but to say someone is born gay is taking the easy way out. No disrespect.

 
Old 01-01-2011, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Pflugerville
2,211 posts, read 4,277,309 times
Reputation: 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by At1WithNature View Post
Hey, I'm from Chicago. And unlike people who pretend and say "I have friends who are gay" I really do. I work with them all day long and I run marathons with them. I'm from the Chi, 10 million people around this city. Gays all over. Holding hands and making out on the El. Good for them just like it is good for anyone who can find that with another person. However, however...I am convinced that certain people are born with a tendency to be gay. They are not born gay. What they feel could have easily been influenced to go another direction earlier in life but it didn't.

Let's say there are 6 billion people on Earth even though there is more. Heck, there are more than 2 billion in India and China alone. And that's just the surface of one continent. The point is out of 6 billion people, let's say 300 million are gay. I think that you can double that number to 600 million as far as the sector of the population that was born with a tendency to be gay but for whatever reasons, the influences in their life made them go "straight." It's nothing to be ashamed of but to say someone is born gay is taking the easy way out. No disrespect.

No disrespect taken from you or directed from me. I am simply telling you as a gay man, I have always been gay. And if enviornmental factors do contribute to that, then I don't know what they could be. Like I said, there are SO Many absentee fathers in America Alone, there would have to be more gay people than straight.

Plus, most cultures are small minded and violent. It is entirely possible that there are MANY more gay people in the world then we realize, but it is not safe for them to announce that they are gay. That doesn't mean they don't exist.
 
Old 01-01-2011, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Pflugerville
2,211 posts, read 4,277,309 times
Reputation: 2229
Actually, if you want to know my opinion on this (and I can understand why you wouldn't), then I think being gay is a lot like being left handed.

Some of you have heard this before I am sure, so feel free to skip my rambling.

Roughly 8 to 15% of the human population is left handed. Definately a minority, a large minority, but a minority. There are many scientific theories that try to explain left handness, but nothing conclusive has been found.

Doctors have observed Left-handness in fetuses on sonograms though, so they know it is something that happens in the womb. (Perhaps if it was so easy to tell if someone is gay, we could observe it on sonograms too. Maybe if you could catch a fetus watching the "real housewives of whatever").

Either way, science knows now that left handness occurs in the womb. It is not enviornmental, it is just how your brain is wired.

That is how we view left handness now. However, thoughout history, being left handed was actually PERSECUTED by various religions, including Chritianity. The word for left in latin is "sinistra", from which we derive our English word "sinister".

And this is not ancient history either. I remember watching a movie with Jimmy Stewart where he was a one legged pitcher in baseball. In the movie his new born son is holding his rattle with his left hand, which causes Jimmy Sterwart to say "no no, don't be a southpaw" and moves the rattle to the babies right hand.

Let's also not forget, the world is sort of made for right handed people. Keyboards, scissors, blinkers, stick shifts. They all have right handed people in mind.

To me, that is JUST LIKE being gay.

You are born that way. You are persecuted by horrible people for something you cannot help. Sure, you could pretend to be straight, just like you could learn to use your right hand, but why should someone be forced to do that?

The world is not made for you. Sure, 90% of what you deal with everyday doesn't matter, but it's that 10% that begins to wear on you. You are taught from an early age that you are wrong, that you should be ashamed. And then people wonder why the suicide rate for gay teens is 17 times higher than their straight counterparts.

Even though it's OBVIOUS that no one would choose to be a pariah if they didn't have too, there are still superstitious people that believe millions of America are "Choosing" to be gay. I guess to get back at their parents or something? And they use that excuse, that's it's a chosen behavior, to justify their bigotry and their persecution, becuase hey, if gay people don't want to be bullied, they can just start acting the way the bullies want them to act.

To me their is no difference. Some people are wired to be left handed. Some people are wired to be gay. A left handed person can CHOOSE to use their right hand. They can train themselves to go against their nature. But that is only for outward apperances. Inside their head, they will ALWAYS be left handed, it is how their brain is wired.

So a gay person could choose to not be gay I guess, to pretend outwardly that they are striaight. But they can't change what they are inside. And the strain of lying is really way to much stress and heartache to reasonably ask a person to accept.

If you want some interesting reading, read this Wikipedia article on left handness. In your mind, while reading, substitute the word homosexual for left handness. It's interesting.

Left-handedness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And hopefully one day soon, the majority of humanity will think that anti-homosexual prejudice is just as silly as anti-left hand prejudice was. I will keep my (right hand) fingers crossed.
 
Old 01-01-2011, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Illinois
3,047 posts, read 8,333,127 times
Reputation: 1374
That is an interesting analogy but I wouldn't go as far as to say that the world is not made for you! They make left handed scissors and there are places where gays are no different than anyone else. I think to say being gay is like being left handed is selling yourself short. You just have to be you and don't get bothered by other people's hang ups. That's the interesting thing about what people say...whatever they say is a reflection of who they are and nothing else. People are concerned with their own insecurities and their own weaknesses. Every single word that comes out of someone's mouth has to do with them and them only. It is based upon their past actions and life experiences. Don't sell yourself short comparing yourself to a southpaw! Just live and take life where it will lead you.
 
Old 01-01-2011, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Pflugerville
2,211 posts, read 4,277,309 times
Reputation: 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by At1WithNature View Post
That is an interesting analogy but I wouldn't go as far as to say that the world is not made for you! They make left handed scissors and there are places where gays are no different than anyone else. I think to say being gay is like being left handed is selling yourself short. You just have to be you and don't get bothered by other people's hang ups. That's the interesting thing about what people say...whatever they say is a reflection of who they are and nothing else. People are concerned with their own insecurities and their own weaknesses. Every single word that comes out of someone's mouth has to do with them and them only. It is based upon their past actions and life experiences. Don't sell yourself short comparing yourself to a southpaw! Just live and take life where it will lead you.
Oh, I agree. Obviously being left handed is actually not as "big" a thing as being gay. I just think the parallels are interesting.

I have a great life actually, and I live in Texas. So you can be gay anywhere. You just have to not be bothered easily.

I guess that is true of most everything though.
 
Old 01-02-2011, 05:59 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,807,758 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by At1WithNature View Post
Does anyone else think that there is a reasoning behind why people become homosexuals? Obviously, there is but I am convinced that people are not born gay. Sure, they may be born with a predisposition to homosexuality but it is their environment that cements them as a gay.

I think boys who raised with absentee fathers, who don't have a strong male role model, and who don't have girlfriends are almost certain to be either gay or another form of social misfit. Being gay can be classified as being a misfit because being gay means that you can't produce offspring which means that you are going against your natural way of functioning.
None of the major health organizations agree with this idea as there is no scientific evidence to support it.

According to The American Academy of Pediatrics:

"In recent decades, biologically based theories have been favored by experts".
"...there is no scientific evidence that abnormal parenting, sexual abuse, or other adverse life events influence sexual orientation."

It's usually only the "pray away the gay" anti-gay religious-based fringe groups that believe this notion. They have yet to come up with even one peer-reviewed study to support their ideas.

Last edited by Ceist; 01-02-2011 at 06:26 AM..
 
Old 01-02-2011, 06:33 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,807,758 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBrown80 View Post
Actually, if you want to know my opinion on this (and I can understand why you wouldn't), then I think being gay is a lot like being left handed.

Some of you have heard this before I am sure, so feel free to skip my rambling.

Roughly 8 to 15% of the human population is left handed. Definately a minority, a large minority, but a minority. There are many scientific theories that try to explain left handness, but nothing conclusive has been found.

Doctors have observed Left-handness in fetuses on sonograms though, so they know it is something that happens in the womb. (Perhaps if it was so easy to tell if someone is gay, we could observe it on sonograms too. Maybe if you could catch a fetus watching the "real housewives of whatever").

Either way, science knows now that left handness occurs in the womb. It is not enviornmental, it is just how your brain is wired.

That is how we view left handness now. However, thoughout history, being left handed was actually PERSECUTED by various religions, including Chritianity. The word for left in latin is "sinistra", from which we derive our English word "sinister".

And this is not ancient history either. I remember watching a movie with Jimmy Stewart where he was a one legged pitcher in baseball. In the movie his new born son is holding his rattle with his left hand, which causes Jimmy Sterwart to say "no no, don't be a southpaw" and moves the rattle to the babies right hand.

Let's also not forget, the world is sort of made for right handed people. Keyboards, scissors, blinkers, stick shifts. They all have right handed people in mind.

To me, that is JUST LIKE being gay.

You are born that way. You are persecuted by horrible people for something you cannot help. Sure, you could pretend to be straight, just like you could learn to use your right hand, but why should someone be forced to do that?

The world is not made for you. Sure, 90% of what you deal with everyday doesn't matter, but it's that 10% that begins to wear on you. You are taught from an early age that you are wrong, that you should be ashamed. And then people wonder why the suicide rate for gay teens is 17 times higher than their straight counterparts.

Even though it's OBVIOUS that no one would choose to be a pariah if they didn't have too, there are still superstitious people that believe millions of America are "Choosing" to be gay. I guess to get back at their parents or something? And they use that excuse, that's it's a chosen behavior, to justify their bigotry and their persecution, becuase hey, if gay people don't want to be bullied, they can just start acting the way the bullies want them to act.

To me their is no difference. Some people are wired to be left handed. Some people are wired to be gay. A left handed person can CHOOSE to use their right hand. They can train themselves to go against their nature. But that is only for outward apperances. Inside their head, they will ALWAYS be left handed, it is how their brain is wired.

So a gay person could choose to not be gay I guess, to pretend outwardly that they are striaight. But they can't change what they are inside. And the strain of lying is really way to much stress and heartache to reasonably ask a person to accept.

If you want some interesting reading, read this Wikipedia article on left handness. In your mind, while reading, substitute the word homosexual for left handness. It's interesting.

Left-handedness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And hopefully one day soon, the majority of humanity will think that anti-homosexual prejudice is just as silly as anti-left hand prejudice was. I will keep my (right hand) fingers crossed.
Great post JayBrown80.

I think handedness a good parallel. What's even more interesting is that there is far more concordance in twins for male homosexuality than there is for left-handedness.

Comparison Chart: Sexual Orientation vs. Handedness
 
Old 01-03-2011, 01:33 PM
 
5,460 posts, read 6,140,279 times
Reputation: 1805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
Marriage is a government supported institution between two people.
That gives me an idea. If the religious are so adamant that the word marriage belongs to them, let's give it to them and make a clean break. That is, they get a nice label from their church that they are married - but none of the government-sponsored benefits that they now enjoy. No using one income to fund the other's retirement plans, no visiting their partner in the hospital, no automatic inheritance from their spouse, no shared health insurance, and a whole host of issues when raising kids (which last name do you pick?). Instead, you just get a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that god is happy with your marriage. There's no talk about Roth IRA's in the Bible, so this gets those who pine for it a return to the traditional religious definition of marriage.

Give all of the secular benefits to couples (of any orientation) who instead choose to have a secular partnership sponsored by the government. But guess what - you can't be married twice at the same time (unless you're Mormon). So pick and choose. Is a traditional marriage really important enough to make sacrifices for, or would you rather have some legal certainty that other people will recognize your family as one unit? If you want the latter, now you understand why homosexuals want those same legal protections. It has nothing to do with stealing marriage from anyone.
 
Old 01-03-2011, 02:49 PM
 
2,031 posts, read 2,556,961 times
Reputation: 1377
Default Civil Rights Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeThinkerInTex View Post
The term marriage is a religous term. Marriage is a religous practice belongs to religion.
Please forgive me and pray for me please because I do not won't to be intolerant of anyone, I have no right to be intolerant of others.
I just don't understand why the gay community insist having the term "marriage."
Nonsense.

I am married. I was married in a courthouse. No deity was invoked, referenced, mentioned, hinted at, or suggested during the process of entering my marriage. The fact that marriage is mentioned in the bible no more makes marriage solely religious than does the fact that wine is mentioned in the bible makes having a glass of merlot religious act.
 
Old 01-03-2011, 03:21 PM
 
425 posts, read 983,093 times
Reputation: 508
Handedness is a geat analogy, JayBrown. In my own family, out of 10 grandchildren (5 female, 5 male), one is gay and one is left-handed. The perfect distribution pattern!

I'll throw my two cents in with those who desire to separate the religious ritual of marriage with the modern social construct that lets adults create families together. They have become completely separate things in the minds of many, so let's just formalize that and be done with it.
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