Shooting at an Elementary School Just Outside of San Antonio (Abbott: law, dangerous)

[MenardMQ]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

It always amazes me how folks want to drop to personal attacks....

I was basing my comments re the officer on updated reports - sounds like they may have been updated yet again. I'll reserve comment until I have seen them for myself - right now, the story line is (understandably) VERY fluid.

You have a perp barricaded in a closed room with only one point of entry - of course he's going to have a tactical advantage, and I'm sure the officers going in knew that they were going to take hits....difference being, they continued to advance - much to their credit.

Now.....take the same scenario with a staff member present as the shooter entered the school. He may well have been able to have stopped the attack then and there. But we'll never know, will we? But as has been borne out time and again - armed bystanders can often stop an attack in the early stages. And before you can froth at the mouth again....it's ALWAYS going to be on a case-by-case basis, because each situation IS going to be different. NONE of us were there, so we have no definitive way of saying how things might have been done different at this point. Bottom line is that you had a punk that willfully shot his own grandmother in the face, then went on the attack against defenseless children.....I hope he rots in hell.

I didn't personally attack you - I'm pointing out that you're misguided and wrong here.

Look, I'm not going to disagree with you here above. You're right with what you just posted, right up until you pose about a staff member taking care of the situation. The reality is that past performance is indicative of future performance here. I don't have cold hard statistics in front of me, but I can definitively state that in the vast majority of school shootings in the past 20 years where armed, trained law enforcement were already present on campus, the shooter was never neutralized until they accomplished their objective which was to kill multiple people.

Again, anyone, even highly trained individuals, are at a severe disadvantage to a surprise shooter that immediately is on the offensive with a long gun. The AR platform rifle was specifically designed to arm a lightly trained 18 year old private and be immediately proficient as a killer (the military).

[MenardMQ]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

Absolutely - it's the TYPICAL reaction of a good LEO (the FL cop being a flagrant example of a BAD LEO).

I'm a little bit surprised that you would fall for the knee-jerk conclusion that a lot of the media and the department provided for you with regards to Scot Peterson. Like the current situation, you should research Deputy Peterson's situation a little more in depth, the tactical situation that took place, and his side of the story.

[mkwensky]

Originally Posted by rrbcfy

I didn't personally attack you - I'm pointing out that you're misguided and wrong here.

Look, I'm not going to disagree with you here above. You're right with what you just posted, right up until you pose about a staff member taking care of the situation. The reality is that past performance is indicative of future performance here. I don't have cold hard statistics in front of me, but I can definitively state that in the vast majority of school shootings in the past 20 years where armed, trained law enforcement were already present on campus, the shooter was never neutralized until they accomplished their objective which was to kill multiple people.

Again, anyone, even highly trained individuals, are at a severe disadvantage to a surprise shooter that immediately is on the offensive with a long gun. The AR platform rifle was specifically designed to arm a lightly trained 18 year old private and be immediately proficient as a killer (the military).

I would agree with this assessment. 'Good guys with a gun' have at best a mixed track record.

There was an armed security guard at Columbine who briefly engaged the shooters, but was ultimately not involved in neutralizing them.

The Sutherland Springs shooter was killed by civilians with guns as he left the church, after most of the victims were already killed.

I can't really think of any example where an active shooter was neutralized in the act by an armed civilian.

The only real solution might be guards with long guns at those soft targets, or use soldiers like you see in Mexico.

[MenardMQ]

Originally Posted by rrbcfy

There was already an armed LEO on campus. 2 other LEOs engaged the guy before he made it into the school. What more do you want?

[Mod cut: enough!]

TXDPS just hosted a news conference and completely walked back their statement yesterday that a SRO and other law enforcement engaged with the shooter as he headed toward the school. Instead, he was never engaged by anyone, and he simply walked through the unlocked front door of the school, walked 40 feet with two turns directly into the classroom and proceeded to barricade himself in there.

Naturally, the media lost their collective minds and the news conference was brought to an abrupt halt.

DPS just turned Texas into a complete laughing stock. I don't know how a credible statewide law enforcement agency was able to turn this into a sh*tshow so quickly. I fully support our brothers in law enforcement, but at this point I'm going to speculate that DPS is closing ranks around the law enforcement response and slow walking what are going to be some very uncomfortable truths about what happened.

I typically loath Beto, but at this point maybe he should have been throwing chairs in yesterday's dog and pony show instead of grandstanding.

[malcorub16]

Originally Posted by mkwensky

The only real solution might be guards with long guns at those soft targets, or use soldiers like you see in Mexico.

Seeing guards or police officers with long guns doesn't sit well with Americans, the first thing most point out when crossing the border is how uncomfortable they feel seeing police and soldados with automatic/semi-auto rifles. Our society sees an AR and freaks out, might need to start getting used to it.

[Azure110]

Originally Posted by malcorub16

Seeing guards or police officers with long guns doesn't sit well with Americans, the first thing most point out when crossing the border is how uncomfortable they feel seeing police and soldados with automatic/semi-auto rifles. Our society sees an AR and freaks out, might need to start getting used to it.

And you see how well Mexico has mass shootings handled .....Having guards everywhere with long guns isn't the solution.

[James Austen]

Well the long and short of another awful tragedy is that nothing will be done about it. An 18 year old will be ID/age checked if he goes into a bar but allowed to buy a high powered killing device which was designed to destroy bones and bodily tissue with deadly effect.

[rynetwo]

These articles about the cops are very confusing.

I saw the video of the parents, but the suspect was in a classroom and the police could not get in or could they, none of us know.

For god's sake can people just calm down until we can understand what ACTUALLY happened?

I just watched a video from Mediate and it had nothing to to with the tile's assumption. Read that garbage article and listen to the actual Q&A via video.

NM, the disingenuous people there removed it.

[malcorub16]

Everyone talks about the school not being locked, but the shooting could have very well have taken place during lunch or after school when the kids are outside. My kids elementary has them eat outside and some of the classrooms are in bungalows/portables and kids need access to the classroom/bathrooms.

There are so many scenarios depending on the layout of the school and it's student release habits that it's hard to plan for.

[laina1980]

Originally Posted by caco54

Here we go again. Politicians will offer thoughts and prayers and nothing happens. Last two were 18, you need to be 21 to buy a pack of cigarettes but no problem getting a high capacity weapon. This must end and the solution is not more guns.

You guys have the power to stop allowing these clowns to keep getting re-elected. This year it can happen. Beto is SO much more valuable for Texas. I’d say target the people who don’t usually vote for these elections. I honestly just can’t see how you can deal with Abbott more longer!

Come on Texas, do it for these beautiful kids who lost their lives to gun violence!