For a big city, why is San Jose so boring? (San Diego: lease, hotels)

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by Conrad Gray

Which are the twin cities of the Bay?

SF and Oakland.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Good explanation... seen it happen other places where a city gobbles up surrounding county lands to capture the tax base and it often fosters resentment and higher taxes.

Jacksonville comes to mind.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by sprtgrl22

First - I'm an early 30s, millennial/slightly hipster, techie. Grew up in San Jose, including going to high school downtown, and just came back after 12 years living in Boston, San Diego, Seattle, heck even a few months in Houston.

Given my above demographics, I was basically looking for a place with a Walk Score of >90 - coffee, restaurants, shops, bars, parks, drug store, grocery all within walking distance (less than 1/2 mile away). Bonus points for useful transit (Caltrain, maybe Lightrail). With the exception of Houston (where there were 3 Walmarts on the same street within 2 miles of each other) I had been able to live in areas that had these amenities - a livable, urban area.

San Jose has some pockets that are appealing. I like Japantown, the Alameda, San Pedro Square. I'll even throw in Santana Row, but there's an in-authenticity that's unappealing for me--but I can see how others like it.

But that's sort of it.

What is so frustrating is that there are so many crappy mega-complexes that are being built with 300+ housing units -- San Jose is/can be dense! But they lack any amenities for dense living. Even if there's a Safeway or Starbucks 1/2 mile away, if it's along a major thoroughfare and you have to cross an 8 lane wide intersection and a parking lot that's another quarter mile long--you'll just end up driving there anyway. Each of these complexes should have ground floor retail and dining - it reduces the number of cars on the roads, builds a sense of community, grows local businesses, etc.

I think there's a misconception that a big city needs to be centralized around "downtown" and that it needs to be a big urban behemoth like Manhattan or Chicago or even SF. In San Diego, there is a busy(ish) downtown area (the Gaslamp) but it's mostly for convention-ers and tourists. Most locals don't go out there. But there are a ton of great neighborhoods that have a few blocks each of dining and retail. And not in a strip mall! In San Diego - think Ocean Beach, Solana Beach, North Park, Normal Heights. In Seattle, think Fremont, Green Lake, Ballard. I would argue that San Jose has a lot of common with San Diego and Seattle, but there largely aren't strong neighborhoods like I've seen in these other cities (maybe Willow Glen, Campbell, Japantown?).

What would it take to develop and grow these areas? I don't know how it all works, but it seems like zoning in San Jose and surrounding is very limited in having mixed-use areas. That's how you get all these people living in shoebox apartments crammed next to each other, but still have to drive to go do anything. The weather here is great! Let's make it more walkable and bikable, less strip malls. Down with the strip malls.

Even SF is mostly a nodal pattern especially for residents. Very few residents hang a lot in downtown. The nodal pattern can be really great but the nodes need to be very well developed and diverse in nature. SJ has some of this but as you note it ain't no San Diego or Seattle.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by cardinal2007

While the peninsula has some nice downtowns, none of them, even Palo Alto, are really as interesting as Downtown San Jose, but of course downtown is much larger than Palo Alto downtown, all those are small cities. By 1950 when the suburban boom started San Jose had 100,000 people, so of course it will be more urban than all those cities that had a much smaller population at the time.

Hard to have that much exciting stuff when it is all small suburbs. The peninsula has short commutes, nicer weather for the most part, and quaint, and admittedly charming downtown areas, but certainly no skyline, Metro Center Tower may be tall, but not really a skyline, not much to bring me there, except for Stanford. If I didn't work there I would probably not go there all that much.

I can't say much, I get to work in downtown PA, work crazy long hours, and then take the train back to San Jose. Having the bank, post office and a pharmacy walking distance is convenient. But same is true for home.

Downtown San Mateo is within reach of giving Downtown SJ a run for its money. Downtown Redwood City is a work in progress but could end up being pretty amazing some day.

[mossly]

Originally Posted by Conrad Gray

One other major point I was trying to make is that other than San Jose feeling like it's got a more subdued atmosphere for a city of its population (and territory) size, is that for some reason it seems like "the capital of Silicon Valley" doesn't feel as important as other cities in the area.

The massive quantities of trash-talking that residents of other Bay Area locations lob at San Jose and its people would certainly bear out your "doesn't feel as important" notion. And I don't think I understand why it happens; maybe I just haven't been here long enough to grok it. Is freaking Sunnyvale really THAT much better that they can look down their noses? In what way? Does the Google headquarters cast some magical glow over Mountain View?

It's a little ironic - we're here talking about how SJ doesn't feel like a big city. And even the people who take issue with the word "boring" and all it implies are in agreement that SJ doesn't feel like a big city. I mean, we all seem to be on the same page there for sure. But the criticisms thrown at us by other Bay Area residents are typically big-city-style complaints. SJ is dirty. SJ has too much crime. If you live in SJ you will be shot by drug dealers the day you move in and if you're not, you'll be shot by burglars at your home that night. Seems like we get grief from both directions, somehow.

[bobby_guz_man]

Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly

SF and Oakland.

Nope. It's currently SF and SJ. Oakland is nothing more than a town at this point. Oakland needs to watch out for Fremont usurping the 3rd banana spot in the Bay Area in a few decades.

SJ and SJ have left Oakland far far behind.

[bobby_guz_man]

Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly

Downtown San Mateo is within reach of giving Downtown SJ a run for its money. Downtown Redwood City is a work in progress but could end up being pretty amazing some day.

Give it a rest, man. Downtown San Mateo is the size of my bathroom.

[mstnghu2]

Originally Posted by mossly

The massive quantities of trash-talking that residents of other Bay Area locations lob at San Jose and its people would certainly bear out your "doesn't feel as important" notion. And I don't think I understand why it happens; maybe I just haven't been here long enough to grok it. Is freaking Sunnyvale really THAT much better that they can look down their noses? In what way? Does the Google headquarters cast some magical glow over Mountain View?

It's a little ironic - we're here talking about how SJ doesn't feel like a big city. And even the people who take issue with the word "boring" and all it implies are in agreement that SJ doesn't feel like a big city. I mean, we all seem to be on the same page there for sure. But the criticisms thrown at us by other Bay Area residents are typically big-city-style complaints. SJ is dirty. SJ has too much crime. If you live in SJ you will be shot by drug dealers the day you move in and if you're not, you'll be shot by burglars at your home that night. Seems like we get grief from both directions, somehow.

I agree with this completely. Many people snub their noses at San Jose without any real facts. You'll even see it on this board time and time again. Almost every time somebody posts a relocation question, practically every city in the South Bay will get a recommendation except San Jose itself.

The fact is, there are many upscale or just "nice" parts of San Jose that rival other typically upscale or nice cities/towns in the area. When you drive from San Jose into Los Gatos, it's almost indistinguishable. If you're not familiar with the area you wouldn't even know that you crossed from one city into the other.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by bobby_guz_man

Nope. It's currently SF and SJ. Oakland is nothing more than a town at this point. Oakland needs to watch out for Fremont usurping the 3rd banana spot in the Bay Area in a few decades.

SJ and SJ have left Oakland far far behind.

I was referring to the initial conditions prior to SJ transforming from a cross roads ag processing center into an edge city.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by bobby_guz_man

Give it a rest, man. Downtown San Mateo is the size of my bathroom.

Size vs energy levels, etc.

Look, I spend plenty of time in downtown SJ.

Some of the criticisms regarding its scene (or weakness thereof) are well founded.

Don't take all this so freakin' personally.

It would be good if SJ become less boring (at least for those of us who are not introverted engineers who are all into hiding in houses with immediate family).