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That comment was specific to someone claiming our president was not born in the US even in spite of absolutely every piece of evidence to the contrary. That's hardly the same as attempting to engage in rational political discourse and being told to shut up, which would to most be very offensive. Do you not agree?
It's not rational to you if you support Obama, i'm sure.
I can't say one way or the other if the birth certificate is real, but here are the results of the latest look at them. It raises a lot of questions. Maybe not every piece of evidence is what it is supposed to be. The document investigation is somewhat over my head, but someone who understands it might be able to get more out of it.
edit: Before you complain that this post is off topic, I have to say that you are the one who opened up with the "every piece of evidence to the contrary." Also, anyone who goes to the link and does not view the videos (short) will not see the validity of the argument presented.
Last edited by Cruzincat; 03-06-2012 at 07:33 PM..
Let's see if I understand. One new member from Oregon writes an extensive family history explaining his ties to Branson and the political affiliation of his family members who live here - and a member from Maryland scolds him for writing too much? Why? Because it was more than 25 words - or wasn't written in a combative tone?
And what is your tie to the Branson area and your input to the thread topic Cruz? You might want to live here someday?
Thanks for taking the time to share information relevant to the thread Rancheria. And welcome to the forum.
If it is relevant to the thread, then please do us all a favor and bold the parts that have to do with the number of conservatives in Branson. The little I could see that was pertinent to the thread would take about thirty seconds to read. Was it pertinent to Branson? Yes, that's why I suggested a new thread.
If it is relevant to the thread, then please do us all a favor and bold the parts that have to do with the number of conservatives in Branson. The little I could see that was pertinent to the thread would take about thirty seconds to read. Was it pertinent to Branson? Yes, that's why I suggested a new thread.
Dave, are you a MOD here?
Frankly, I think Cruzincat has a point there. Just sayin....
I realized that in writing such a long narrative of my family connection to the Branson area and two other So. Mo. places, all the way across the state., -I ran the risk of all of the history not being every reader's cup of tea. Thanks, SW Missouri Dave, for wading through it !!
I'm long winded because I would like to talk more about what a large group of conservatives in the Branson area actually do for the benefit of the area, or not for the greater benefit of the area, from different perspectives. How would a strong majority of conservative residents likely take to new people moving in who are not conservative. What conflicts would arise?
I wish I knew more about the comparative efforts, for and against, of conservatives and non conservatives during the fight to gain National River status for the Buffalo River, to keep if from ever being damned. There was a long effort and struggle to prevent that river from becoming a large Lake reservoir like the Table Rock Lake and Bull Shoals Lake. That would be interesting to find out.
Would one group, or another, rather have a large lake or "conserve" the original river with federal protection in place? I don't know. But if I can find out it would give much more meaning than just talking about How Many conservatives there are in an area like Branson. The conservative part of me loves that the Buffalo River still thrives as God made it, even though I'm not a fan of the federal bureaucracy to manage it. But if that was the only workable way to protect it in perpetuity, than I'm in favor of a National River. Could the Buffalo River's National River status ever be changed, much like conservatives want to change the Arctic Nationial Wildlife Refuge's protected status for oil drilling in the 1002 lands, the coastal plain of far north Alaska ???
I thought that those who may have read my post, so long and somewhat personal, might get the impression that each and every one of my Aunts and Uncles and two female cousins and their families --10 members of our small family who moved to Mo from So.Cal.--are all conservative voting Republicans.
So, Yes, as far as my family is concerned, the Branson relatives and the other So. Mo. relatives are all conservatives. That's my personal family point. I refrained from talking about my interactions and differences with my conservative relatives. That could have Really been a long and tedious family history post !!
And I've heard long recent stories from them that the large majority of their friends in the Branson area, and that the three individual nuclear family's large groups of friends from their areas in So. Mo. are all conservatives and/or tea party members. My Colonel Uncle knows many retired military folks through his memberships in two retired military organizations. These members are mostly all quite conservative, but not all of them are.
My 10 family members left Orange County in So. Cal., where they were not in the minority, for a more affordable quiet rural life in SW Mo, and So Central Mo, and SE Mo. 60% of them, the majority of the Mo Clan, are in retirement. They sought bigger, nicer, newer houses in a natural setting with beautiful farms, hills, and lakes, etc.
My cousin and her family, the youngest family of our Mo. relatives, was also looking for better economic opportunities in Theodosia, on Bull Shoals Lake. It seems like her family has finally found that too. It took a few tries and a few different small businesses, but they're doing well. She's the cousin who is the Chamber of Commerce president of Theodosia, Mo.
My Colonel Uncle from the Branson area, the conservative leader of our family, the patriarch so to speak, believes he and my stepmother are now in charge of my Dad's estate. My very moderate Republican Dad, was a retired Naval Officer who voted for Jimmy Carter twice, because he was in the same Naval Academy company as Jimmy Carter and knew him from 1942-'45. Dad liked Bill Clinton enough to vote for him twice. He voted for one naval officer he knew and against another WWII naval officer and CIA director and former V.P. he didnt' think was in touch as well as Bill Clinton was. He always voted for the guy who he thought was the smartest, regardless of the party affiliation. I have to say, I turned out pretty much like him, and I'm an Independent which I think he really was too, although he was a registered Republican. My Dad's political philosophy was much like Republican Governor Jay Hammond's from Alaska.
Jay Hammond was fully involved in getting the Alaskan oil pipeline built, but he was also a strong balanced steward of the land. He was a trapper, a fisherman, a bush pilot and a true bush man. I know for a fact, and this is maintained by Jay Hammond's widow Bella Hammond as well, that most of Sarah Palin's views on consistently putting industry and non-renewable resource extraction first in Alaska, every time, would not have sat well with Republican Gov. Hammond, -at all. Before he died he was already alarmed at the very beginning of the Pebble Mine prospecting and exploring in his area in the Bristol Bay watershed. This huge gold and copper mine, if permitted, would put his beloved Bristol Bay largest salmon runs in the world at definite risk. All three of us, Jay Hammond, myself and Sarah Palin fished in Bristol Bay in our fishing businesses. She's the only one that did not want to fully protect the Bristol Bay watershed and the huge salmon runs from acid mining/milling waste water intrusion by supporting strong anti-water pollution measures. She stayed deep in the pocket of the foreign mining industry. She was the only one who had the real political opportunity to actually protect Bristol Bay as half term Governor, by backing a legislative bill to protect the watershed quality. Even though she was a fisherwoman and fished in Bristol Bay every summer with her family, she refused to actively support efforts to put strong water quality protections in place so her family and all of us could always expect to fish in the Bay. In fact I voted for Gov. Jay Hammond twice, as well. I would like to see more Republicans in Alaska like Jay Hammond. I don't know if I will ever see this. Sorry, I got off of the Branson Conservatives topic, in to my love for healthy water for salmon in Alaska topic.
I believe most of our 10 Missouri family members, with the possible exception of my Colonel Uncle and Aunt in Kimberling City, all attend a community So. Baptist Church regularly. I was able to touch base with most of them when they came out from Mo. to see my Dad in the Monterey Bay area of Ca. before he passed away this past summer. We had plenty of time to catch up with each other's lives, so I got a good feeling for what it is like for them living in So. Missouri, and especially in Branson and Kimberling City. They still really like it, and don't seem to miss all that much of their old California lives. If they do, they don't talk about it much.
I got the very distinct impression that they would not have moved to So. Mo. if they had not been Conservative Republicans and also somewhat fundamental, evangelical Christians. The Benton, Mo group of 4 is especially in this evangelical Christian group.
I thought the history of what I knew about the Arkansas Upper Buffalo National River area might be interesting and related to Branson, in that it is fairly close and is very similar Ozarks country. I wanted to contrast the Buffalo River history of keeping that watershed original, versus the forming of the big lake impoundments in the Branson area and to the east at Bull Shoals Lake. I also wanted to recommend that Greenlis visit that area.
Finally, I wanted to encourage folks (transplants from anywhere) who may not be all that conservative (like me), from distant, and/or more urban lands to not hesitate to check out the Branson, Mo area. If it seems at all interesting, on paper and online, go check it out.
I gave my example of how the area in the Ozarks 65 to 70 miles south of Kimberling City/Branson really benefitted by the efforts of many transplants, with different life styles, philosophies and backgrounds, in working to get the Buffalo River full protected federal status as the first national river. Every group, across the full spectrum of right and left, seem to love the Buffalo River now as it is.
Well, if you find yourself in an area which is predominantly "conservative" like Branson, and you are from another area which is either more mixed, politically and socially, like my area in So. Oregon and Northern California, or more homogenous on the liberal side like San Francisco, -is it possible to enjoy life and have some close, socially enjoyable relations with your new conservative neighbors?? --Your new neighbors who just voted for Rick Santorum, as did the majority of all of the Republican primary voters in every county in Missouri ??? I think it is possible. And you don't have to totally bite your tongue, constantly afraid that you might say something disagreeable to the old locals.
Finally, my philosophy of being able to get along with people quite different than myself, is in large part formed by my decades of relations with my conservative Republican family and now Tea Party supporting Missouri relatives. My philosophy is pretty much a live and let live one. I try to not be judgmental, which is not often that easy when I feel like I have to defend myself from some of their stereotypical views of me and my life. They all know I must have different political views and some different social views from them, as well.
It's possible that all of the reality shows about life in Alaska have helped me, oddly, with the TV shows' influence on newer views of me. They see how crazy a lot of the fishermen and bush pilots up there are, and how every Alaskan seems quite Libertarian generally, so they tend to use those models of wild long haired, bearded "Deadliest Catch" guys to typecast me. Even though I don't go up to Alaska much lately, and I'm not a chain smoker or much of a drinker. Ironically, they might accept me a little more because of getting to know Phil and Sig, the Hillstrand brother skippers, and Wild Bill, the crab catching skippers of the 'Deadliest Catch', and thinking maybe I am the most like the longest haired skipper, Wild Bill, who would rather go sport fishing in Mexico than to Hawaii. That fits with me. That has been my lifestyle more, so if that works for them to figure me out, that's great.
I didn't let my Colonel Uncle steamroll me over the handling of my Dad's estate, or the funeral arrangements, or the family decisions for Dad with the Drs. in the last week and a half of his life. My non-conservative brother didn't either. My brother and I were strongly out-numbered. We survived without a big blowout argument too. It was challenging at times and I may have bit my tongue and lip a few times.
It has been possible to work well with conservative republican voting people, strangers, neighbors, in Alaska and N. Idaho and other parts of the Pacific N.W. And I've worked with my very conservative relatives, who may think I'm a bit of a heathen, but still hold some respect for me when the going gets tough in a big family crisis.
it's sort of interesting, and hard to measure or prove, but I think I'm seeing some advancement in everyone's skills development in "tolerance" for differences in lifestyle and views and beliefs. If you offer respect, and your best fairness, and the patience and interest and willingness to listen very closely to people who may think that you are part of the social/political problems in the culture war, it's usually advantageous for both "sides". Usually you can be listened to and are able to get most of your points across, even when they are often not totally understood. Of course the best way to show how well your beliefs serve you, is to live your life in as true and impecabble way as possible. The honesty and integrity and personal validity of one's beliefs and life philosophy will hold up much better if one always tries hard to stick to them as a true guide to living a good healthy life while contributing graciously to ones family and communtiy.
If a person can show some sincere understanding and empathy, it's amazing how much you can learn. It doesn't mean you have to adopt another's philosophy or way of life, but you can learn a lot and appreciate some valuable things they show you of their life. A person can actually use that understanding and appreciation of somebody's different viewpoint of their life principles to strengthen their own by broadening them and finding common ground, often in a common good cause. When I'm surrounded by another culture in my country, I like to think of myself as a participant ethnographer who doesn't come across as a field anthropologist studying the natural, primitive subjects. But I try to think as an anthropologist in the sense that I do not make cultural comparative value judgments of a different society, quite unlike mine. But I have to attempt to understand it, to put myself in the other person's shoes or sandals.
I figure if I could learn and survive and become a young Marine all those years ago, and even now think a little fondly of the experience 44 years later, of those heady days of drill instructors training and indoctrinating me to kill, kill, kill, kill the enemy of the country and the Marine Corps, then I can readily seriously listen to somebody earnestly trying in their most heartfelt way to convince the so called liberal world that abortion should be outlawed, nationally, and absolutely, -any and all killing of babies in the womb. This has been one of The deepest and most important and most enduring, emotional lines in the sands between the various camps in the culture wars.
The abortion issue, in individual states and nationally, may be an example of an intense conversational culture war debate between pro-choice people and pro-life people that doesn't happen much anymore-especially face to face. I don't think there is any more of an opportunity to really discuss this in depth between the two opposing sides in either Branson, or in Santa Cruz, California. Most people's lips and tongues go unbitten, on both sides, and all sides of this anymore. It didn't use to be this way. People didn't use to bite their lips and tongues very much when I was going through the sixties, seventies, and eighties.
Last edited by Rancheria; 03-08-2012 at 05:07 AM..
Hey, what happened to the last two posts?? Did somebody actually shoot S.W. Missouri Dave, when he made the next reply after my novela of, "Somebody Please just shoot me." And then Curmudgeon replied right after that "if you'll do me the same favor." And now those last two post comments have vanished. I hope those guys haven't shot each other, just because of my Li'l old post !! I'm firming up plans to visit the Branson, S.W. Mo. area fairly soon this Spring, so I'm hoping they're still around. I was going to ask Curmudgeion just how heavy his experience was in California ??
Hey, what happened to the last two posts?? Did somebody actually shoot S.W. Missouri Dave, when he made the next reply after my novela of, "Somebody Please just shoot me." And then Curmudgeon replied right after that "if you'll do me the same favor." And now those last two post comments have vanished. I hope those guys haven't shot each other, just because of my Li'l old post !! I'm firming up plans to visit the Branson, S.W. Mo. area fairly soon this Spring, so I'm hoping they're still around. I was going to ask Curmudgeion just how heavy his experience was in California ??
Well, I live close to Branson and am a fiscal conservative and social moderate. Therefore, I don't fit in the niche of either major political party and am totally independent. Don't quite know what that makes me as regards the question of conservatism and Branson.
Not quite sure what you mean by "heavy" but my experience in and with California is significant. I was born and raised in Southern CA when we weren't somewhere else due to my father's military career. I also spent the bulk of my adult life in CA when I wasn't somewhere else due to my own military experience. I lived in CA nonstop from 1979 until 2008, first in SoCAL, then a few years in central CA ending up the last nearly 20 years in NorCAL (Sacramento) during those latter years I worked in legislation and politics for the state, as did my wife (how we met), retiring after a total of 25 years of state service. Total time living and working in CA was about 43 years.
I would guess that's relatively "heavy." A major reason we both left was the political/social "climate." We wanted to move back to America. Thus far we've fit in very well.
Thanks, LJ, but you know how anti-social we are. Pizza, anyone?
As to the matter at hand, there are a lot of Tea Party members in the area and I think the vast majority of people we've met are fiscal conservatives but I also believe that social moderation is the norm. This is a very "churched" area and the churches and congregations do a lot of charity work, fund raising and helping others in cooperation with their villages and towns. I see that as a moderate approach to the issues of homelessness and unemployment. In return, people expect sound fiscal policies and a rational approach to social issues from their governance at all levels - hands-up going hand-in-glove with necessary hand-outs.
One thing I really love about the area is that the vast majority of people are unabashedly and unapologetically patriotic with a strong love of and devotion to home and country. Veterans are respected, honored and appreciated; something I've neither seen nor experienced to anywhere near the same degree in other parts of the country. Here the flag waving is real and obvious. Just drive around and you can't miss it.
So, is "everyone" in Branson conservative? Doubtful. Is the area generally conservative? I would say so.
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I concur
Pizza, anyone?
