Challenging the notion that South Texas isn't Southern (Houston, San Antonio: school, transit)

[Johnhw2]

Houston and San Antonio have seen significant population growth with growth of over 500 % since 1950. I can believe both cities had a pretty strong southern culture in 1950. I do not believe the growth since then was like its base population then. I experienced living in Houston and visiting SA often. Both saw significant Hispanic growth over this period. Houston also experienced significant asian growth and the rest of its growth looked more like the national average than southern

Am I to believe this growth did not dilute the southern culture? I believe the southern culture was significantly diluted to the point to call them southern cities now misses the mark.

I see no reason to believe the state's 300% growth since that period is different from the rate of growth of south Texas excluding the cities I mentioned. In fact I believe most of what I consider south Texas is much like a blend of Houston and San Antonio. So I believe South Texas is significantly more Asian and Hispanic and non southern than it was in 1950.

South Texas might have had significant southern culture influences in 1950 but to say it still does seems off the mark to me.

[Foamposite]

Originally Posted by jackalope48

Yeah, Gipson did research for Old Yeller on our family ranch outside Harlingen. South Texas being "Southern" is ludicrous. It's where all the damn cattle came from to start all the other ranches in the west.

Harlingen looks Southern to me

https://www.google.com/maps/@26.1878...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@26.1843...7i16384!8i8192

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by Foamposite

Harlingen looks Southern to me

https://www.google.com/maps/@26.1878...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@26.1843...7i16384!8i8192

Nothing says Southern like a cactus...

[Foamposite]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

Nothing says Southern like a cactus...

There are cacti here in New York. Doesn't mean it's the Southwest.

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by Foamposite

There are cacti here in New York. Doesn't mean it's the Southwest.

I didnt say anything about Southwestern, but places like Harlingen and McAllen arent Southern in any way except geography.

[Slowpoke_TX]

Originally Posted by Johnhw2

Houston and San Antonio have seen significant population growth with growth of over 500 % since 1950. I can believe both cities had a pretty strong southern culture in 1950.

San Antonio has never been Southern; its culture has been predominantly Hispanic ever since the Spaniards arrived in the early 1700s.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX

San Antonio has never been Southern; its culture has been predominantly Hispanic ever since the Spaniards arrived in the early 1700s.

While Southern culture was present in San Antonio in the 1800s, it's always been alongside the Tejano culture you mention plus the German immigrant culture. At best it was a frontier blend incorporating some Southernness.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX

...says the person who has obviously never experienced the culture in the Panhandle, South Plains, Permian Basin, Big Country, or Concho Valley.

Was in the Panhandle literally Yesterday. With all the Church of Christ, Baptists etc it certainly does have a southern culture. Cotton, Sweet Tea, etc.

The "Big Country" area around Abilene is absolutely southern. See the above.

I've said before, but the spur of Texas and the area around the border is more South Western than Sothern. Draw a line from the SE corner of NM and more or less draw a line to Brownsville. That area is more "Western" than "Southern" That would include Parts of the Permian, the big bend and RGV. The Concho Valley would for the most part lie outside that region. San Angelo...I would still describe as southern.

[kemahkami]

Originally Posted by Thoreau424

It's just labels and words. It will never be exact and precise.

Just skip the labels if it's not going to lead to anything meaningful and/or cause more confusion.

This isn't worth fighting or bickering over...

Indeed. I've honestly come to this conclusion as well. There's just been too much dilution and mixture from the various migrations over the recent decades, combined with the sheer streamlining of culture across the country (even globally!) due to the internet and media. So I'm just fine with describing US regions purely from geographic context now - even at most, I'd only factor in natural qualities such as climate or ecology.

The rural American culture is just as manufactured and contrived as the industrial, urban culture. A mere by-product of the Industrial Revolution. It never had the long, sustenance-based culture seen with places like India, Southeast Asia, or even much of Europe.

[Spade]

Originally Posted by Foamposite

Harlingen looks Southern to me

https://www.google.com/maps/@26.1878...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@26.1843...7i16384!8i8192

Just because you look Southern doesn't mean you are Southern. Harlingen and the rio grande valley is much different from the rest of the state.