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Sheesh, I didn't need a disertation. I never said that she was or was not accepted by society, which presumably would be difficult for her for multiple reasons. This is about slurping soup. IMO, if you will permit me to have an opinion about a fictional story and to speculate about a fictional character, is that it seems unlikely, that this particular fictional character would be unaware that it is improper to make loud noises while at a formal dinner table and again IMO, this fictional character would not use this specific behavior to illicit a shocked reaction from her hosts. When you are the only one slurping and sloshing at the table and everyone else is giving you looks and you have been to multiple meals with other rich folks for many years, you are going to figure out that you are doing something inappropriate. Cora's mother was not Eliza Doolittle. We have discussed on this board in the past, that it seemed unlikely in the real world that a male servant (Thomas) who had been "outed" would continue in employment. IMO, this is the same type of unrealistic writing and artistic license incorporated in this series. For me, this show is entertainment, not a historical documentary and therefore, I don't bother with bios about fictional characters from the production company or other sources. I just enjoy watching what is shown weekly on television and some of the supplemental programs. It's historical fiction and sometimes the history part is hit or miss.
Sheesh, I didn't need a disertation. I never said that she was or was not accepted by society. This is about slurping soup. IMO, if you will permit me to have an opinion about a fictional story and to speculate about a fictional character, is that it seems unlikely, that this particular fictional character would be unaware that it is improper to make loud noises while at a formal dinner table and again IMO, this fictional character would not use this specific behavior to illicit a shocked reaction from her hosts. We have discussed on this board in the past, that it seemed unlikely in the real world that a male servant (Thomas) who had been "outed" would continue in employment. IMO, this is the same type of unrealistic writing and artistic license incorporated in this series. For me, this show is entertainment, not a historical documentary and therefore, I don't bother with bios about fictional characters from the production company or other sources. I just enjoy watching what is shown weekly on television and some of the supplemental programs. It's historical fiction and sometimes the history part is hit or miss.
I think the average person back in those days knew some basic table manners, better than some people today! That's why Martha's really bad manners stood out and seemed unrealistic. Even SHE would have known better. Even if she ate off the floor with her hands to begin with, she would have learned somewhere along the way. She learned how to dress and speak and express herself clearly so she certainly would have learned how to eat properly. Maybe she wouldn't have used the correct fork or she wouldn't know how to use the fish knife or other unusual utensils but I don't think she would have acted like a pig at the table.
In my own small world, my grandfather was working class in the north of England, Yorkshire. When he was old enough to look for work his father took him out on a fishing boat to see how he liked it. He said that the sailors ate out of a cup and just wiped it out with their scarf. He said that was disgusting" and so he would not be a sailor. That would have been about 1900. He went to work in the mills and even the mill workers ate off plates and used utensils and cared about sanitation and some degree of manners.
My opinion is that this soup slurping episode was a mistake, an overblown attempt to show how uncivilized and American Mrs Levinson was. I don't think she did it on purpose to shock her hosts. Anyway, we should probably hand this thread over to the people who are currently watching and gossip about the "exciting" stuff on the spoiler thread.
I think the average person back in those days knew some basic table manners, better than some people today! That's why Martha's really bad manners stood out and seemed unrealistic. Even SHE would have known better. Even if she ate off the floor with her hands to begin with, she would have learned somewhere along the way. She learned how to dress and speak and express herself clearly so she certainly would have learned how to eat properly. Maybe she wouldn't have used the correct fork or she wouldn't know how to use the fish knife or other unusual utensils but I don't think she would have acted like a pig at the table.
In my own small world, my grandfather was working class in the north of England, Yorkshire. When he was old enough to look for work his father took him out on a fishing boat to see how he liked it. He said that the sailors ate out of a cup and just wiped it out with their scarf. He said that was disgusting" and so he would not be a sailor. That would have been about 1900. He went to work in the mills and even the mill workers ate off plates and used utensils and cared about sanitation and some degree of manners.
My opinion is that this soup slurping episode was a mistake, an overblown attempt to show how uncivilized and American Mrs Levinson was. I don't think she did it on purpose to shock her hosts. Anyway, we should probably hand this thread over to the people who are currently watching and gossip about the "exciting" stuff on the spoiler thread.
That was a very clear explanation. I would also like to add that women, even women in poverty, in general, were more likely to fuss about having clean hands and certain standards of etiquette. Men would just want their grub, but women had to clean up after them. If Martha's husband was to be successful and have to deal with the upperclass for business, they both would have picked up basic appropriate behavior, even if they continued to lack finishing school level of refinement. People may have whispered about them behind their back, but apparently they were accepted enough so that they could summer in Newport and accumulate wealth.
Well, if ABC 'borrows' the show for their special you know they have to have a lot of viewers.
Its interesting how the deaths of Lady Sybil and Matthew are kind of symbolic. She would have died anyway, given the circumstances, if they hadn't acted much sooner, but the whole theme of if the doctors being traditional caused her to die lends itself to a time in transition. But dying because he was driving home and not paying any attention, dying in a car crash, is absolutely of the modern world. It's very symbolic of the change that was coming even if they didn't necessarily plan it that way.
I'm in count down mode...can't wait! A friend gave me seasons 1-3 with the extra DVD about Highclear Castle. I've gotten so sucked in to this series...LOL.
I wish I were more optimistic about this season. Somehow, I felt a bit cheated last season, and knowing this one will just ignore those six months like they didn't happen doesn't help. "Thankfully" it takes place offscreen? Surely I'm not the only one who feels this way. I'm not upset about the death of Matthew and have gotten over Sybil's death too. It just seems wrong to do this season the way they are doing it. But maybe I'm just too American and want the seasons to go slower like our U.S. shows have their seasons. At least they could have the cast step out a few at a time from De Loreans, like in Back to the Future...I think that would be hilarious!
I would love to see a spin off series with Daisy running the Farm durring the depression and the war.
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Surprising Addition To Downton Abbey
