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The logical endgame would eventually be a vote I'd imagine. Perhaps the pressure they keep giving is to keep their base happy and keep the unionists DUP under pressure. Their occasional grandstanding on the matter must surely bluff at this stage. Then again, there's a lot of older members in the movement who would perhaps be pushing simply because they want to see it happen within their lifetime.
Indeed and that was the first thing I thought of when McGuinness was diagnosed with his disease, knowing he only had a short time to live.
Back in 1998 when he and Adams put their signatures to paper, they were not young men. However I suspect they thought they might live long enough to see a untied Ireland.
In this video clip (at about 4:50 in case you don't want to watch it all) he says he believes he would live to see that day;
I'm not sure if deep down someone of McGuiness's age truly believed that. Truth is that they were being backed into a corner over the GFA, by the the early 90's British intelligence had infiltrated the IRA at every level and had a lot of dirt on people such as Adams and himself. The alternative to the GFA was messy for both sides.
Indeed and that was the first thing I thought of when McGuinness was diagnosed with his disease, knowing he only had a short time to live.
Back in 1998 when he and Adams put their signatures to paper, they were not young men. However I suspect they thought they might live long enough to see a untied Ireland.
In this video clip (at about 4:50 in case you don't want to watch it all) he says he believes he would live to see that day;
Needless to say every day is a gift, and we never know when we might be called before our maker to justify our life here on earth.
`
My only regret is that McGuinness didn't have the same sort of nasty,painful and frightening death that many of his victims had.
But I'm comforted by the fact he went to his grave knowing his life's work had been a total and utter waste of time.
My only regret is that McGuinness didn't have the same sort of nasty,painful and frightening death that many of his victims had.
But I'm comforted by the fact he went to his grave knowing his life's work had been a total and utter waste of time.
Well that comment does not surprise me, however it got me to think of something I had not considered to be a mainstream line of thinking.
Many a time I have heard Brits from the mainland deride NI and wish the UK was rid of it. I obviously have not engaged every one of them for an in depth analysis as to why. But I suspect while some might not care about NI, one wonders if those who don't care, still do not want the IRA to have succeeded in their ultimate goal.
Another words would you and others who seem disinterested in NI future and disdainful of the Irish in general would say yes to a united Ireland, had it not been for the violent tactics to achieve it?
At the time that Irish settled in Scotland they only settled a portion of the present-day area of Scotland. And as Scotland evolved into a single country there was no connexion.
Are you talking about in the late 13 or early 14th century, or another time period?
Well that comment does not surprise me, however it got me to think of something I had not considered to be a mainstream line of thinking.
Many a time I have heard Brits from the mainland deride NI and wish the UK was rid of it. I obviously have not engaged every one of them for an in depth analysis as to why. But I suspect while some might not care about NI, one wonders if those who don't care, still do not want the IRA to have succeeded in their ultimate goal.
Another words would you and others who seem disinterested in NI future and disdainful of the Irish in general would say yes to a united Ireland, had it not been for the violent tactics to achieve it?
`
This is difficult for me, because I recognise especially Ulsterman's pride in the history of Ulster. I also agree with his anger that the IRA killed many hundreds of people, from their desire for a united Ireland. I also feel anger at America's part in this, supplying money and arms for the so called 'freedom fighters.' The same people murdering innocents in the name of this desire for a united Ireland.
But, I was just sickened by what I saw happen during the so called 'troubles.' A few awful incidents remain in my memory, which are hard to forget. An incident in the early 70s, where two young women were caught up in a bomb explosion, causing both to lose their legs, and one an arm and eye also. Another was the slaughter of two off duty soldiers caught up in an IRA funeral by accident. They were dragged from their car, and slaughtered on those Irish streets......all filmed from above by helicopter, 'live' on the tv. Just sheer savagery. A female reporter said one of the men stared into her eyes, as he was dragged past her. There was nothing she could do to help him.
Many years of this, hardened my heart against Ireland, and made me want to be free of that island, and the Irish. We should have taken steps to hand Northern Ireland over to Eire in the early 70s. Especially after 'Bloody Sunday.' Just get out for good. We didn't, and after that, we got bombings on the mainland like pubs blown up killing people in Guildford and Birmingham. A bus blown up, travelling down the motorway. Passengers thrown out into the road, with many deaths. Soldiers and horses blown to pieces in Hyde Park, and of course, those two children killed in a bomb incident in Warrington. Plus the incident in Omagh, NI, where a breakaway IRA group, opposed to the Good Friday agreement, blew up a car, killing 29 people, including a pregnant woman, and also injured 220 others.
I thought we can't deal with these savages, and just get us out. I used to be a Unionist because that's how we were brought up to be. England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland..... the United Kingdom. But, with the passing years, and taking note of the many insults and abuse my son suffered while living in Scotland, plus attitudes noted during the Scottish independence vote, I have decided England is better on it's own. We dish out a fortune to Scotland and NI both. The Welsh can stay with us, or leave. There doesn't seem to be a desire to quit the UK from the Welsh, but it's up to them.
Now, because we didn't take steps over 40 years ago to free ourselves of NI, we find ourselves in this mess with the backstop in our attempts to leave the EU. Just nothing but problems caused by NI being in the UK. We are hearing how without the backstop, there could be renewed violence because of the possibility of a hard border. Oh yeah? The Irish threatening that they may start killing each other again? Deja vu anyone?
My concerns are with England and the English. Time we put England first. Looks like everyone else in these islands do that, so time we did so as well.
I'm not sure if deep down someone of McGuiness's age truly believed that. Truth is that they were being backed into a corner over the GFA, by the the early 90's British intelligence had infiltrated the IRA at every level and had a lot of dirt on people such as Adams and himself. The alternative to the GFA was messy for both sides.
I have read varying accounts of this belief, some of which seem plausible, others clearly trying to diminish the peaceful evolution of the modern IRA.
It is much easier for some to say the IRA was defeated, thus they had no choice but to capitulate. Yet those same people said the IRA would not disarm, nor could be trusted. Needless to say you cannot say both if you truly believe the IRA had been defeated.
Others feel as if the IRA's guerrilla war could continue well into the future, but they primarily through SF were convinced to trade the bullet for the ballot.
I have read varying accounts of this belief, some of which seem plausible, others clearly trying to diminish the peaceful evolution of the modern IRA.
It is much easier for some to say the IRA was defeated, thus they had no choice but to capitulate. Yet those same people said the IRA would not disarm, nor could be trusted. Needless to say you cannot say both if you truly believe the IRA had been defeated.
Others feel as if the IRA's guerrilla war could continue well into the future, but they primarily through SF were convinced to trade the bullet for the ballot.
So are you of the former or latter view?
`
There's certainly truth to the accounts. The extent varies, I don't believe the claims that 50% of the IRA leadership were British informants by the start of the 90's, but they certainly had them there. Britain has one of the most effective intelligence services in the world, the IRA had a surprising level of sophistication but ultimately they were still a grassroots movement with many weaknesses to exploit. Perhaps the IRA wasn't defeated but some of its key figures had been. Those people still commanded a great deal of respect in those circles and their involvement in the GFA agreement was crucial.
That SF was basically the political wing of the IRA has long been an open secret. By the 90's it had become clear that militancy was no longer the way to go, it wasn't even an option that could be considered if Gerry and his buddies wanted to remain free men. The movement towards a fully political strategy was a no-brainer, and the GFA agreement gave the Republicans a clear pathway towards their eventual goals without spilling any more blood.
This is difficult for me, because I recognise especially Ulsterman's pride in the history of Ulster. I also agree with his anger that the IRA killed many hundreds of people, from their desire for a united Ireland. I also feel anger at America's part in this, supplying money and arms for the so called 'freedom fighters.' The same people murdering innocents in the name of this desire for a united Ireland.
But, I was just sickened by what I saw happen during the so called 'troubles.' A few awful incidents remain in my memory, which are hard to forget. An incident in the early 70s, where two young women were caught up in a bomb explosion, causing both to lose their legs, and one an arm and eye also. Another was the slaughter of two off duty soldiers caught up in an IRA funeral by accident. They were dragged from their car, and slaughtered on those Irish streets......all filmed from above by helicopter, 'live' on the tv. Just sheer savagery. A female reporter said one of the men stared into her eyes, as he was dragged past her. There was nothing she could do to help him.
Many years of this, hardened my heart against Ireland, and made me want to be free of that island, and the Irish. We should have taken steps to hand Northern Ireland over to Eire in the early 70s. Especially after 'Bloody Sunday.' Just get out for good. We didn't, and after that, we got bombings on the mainland like pubs blown up killing people in Guildford and Birmingham. A bus blown up, travelling down the motorway. Passengers thrown out into the road, with many deaths. Soldiers and horses blown to pieces in Hyde Park, and of course, those two children killed in a bomb incident in Warrington. Plus the incident in Omagh, NI, where a breakaway IRA group, opposed to the Good Friday agreement, blew up a car, killing 29 people, including a pregnant woman, and also injured 220 others.
I thought we can't deal with these savages, and just get us out. I used to be a Unionist because that's how we were brought up to be. England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland..... the United Kingdom. But, with the passing years, and taking note of the many insults and abuse my son suffered while living in Scotland, plus attitudes noted during the Scottish independence vote, I have decided England is better on it's own. We dish out a fortune to Scotland and NI both. The Welsh can stay with us, or leave. There doesn't seem to be a desire to quit the UK from the Welsh, but it's up to them.
Now, because we didn't take steps over 40 years ago to free ourselves of NI, we find ourselves in this mess with the backstop in our attempts to leave the EU. Just nothing but problems caused by NI being in the UK. We are hearing how without the backstop, there could be renewed violence because of the possibility of a hard border. Oh yeah? The Irish threatening that they may start killing each other again? Deja vu anyone?
My concerns are with England and the English. Time we put England first. Looks like everyone else in these islands do that, so time we did so as well.
I can understand your feelings but of course don't agree with all that you have said. It's worth remembering that England put us here in the first place.
I can understand your feelings but of course don't agree with all that you have said. It's worth remembering that England put us here in the first place.
True, it's a bit rich for the English to complain about problems which they helped create. To just withdraw from these places and let them get on with it would be irresponsible and an abandonment of their moral duty.
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