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I only have a minute, so I will address this question now.
In answer to your question, my thrust was to point out that the green tribe has voted for the more hardline SF over the more moderate SDLP, in the same way the orange tribe has done with the DUP over the UUP.
That is not to say I consider the DUP "dodgy" as you put it, but they clearly are more hardline. The same can be said of SF.
Yet, you only seem to focus on the Irish/Catholics voting for the hardliners, yet fail to bring up how the British/Protestants are doing the exact same thing.
So if the green side can be questioned/derided for their voting choices, couldn't the same be said of the orange side?
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I know your post is addressed to rj but couldn't believe what I was reading. You equate the DUP to Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein is the political wing of the IRA. The IRA/Sinn Fein were responsible for 58% of the killings during the 'troubles'. The biggest by far of any others involved in the 'troubles' How many killings were the DUP involved in ?
As I have already mentioned a few times ( but you don't seem to want to know) the PUP is the political wing of the UVF. That is the comparison which should be made.....IRA and Sinn Fein UVF and PUP
Protestants have always been a small minority on the island most times numbered in thousands while Catholics were in the millions. Its a miracle they have still survived. Their life has always been between a rock and a hard place and it hasn't changed. Still under siege.
Still under siege? Isn’t it strange that the minority of protestants in the Republic of Ireland are happy to live there? If they were under siege, the siege would not have lasted more than a month.
Are you privy to some secret news source that is kept hidden from the rest of the world by magic? Are Catholics burning down protestant churches in the Republic and poking the derrieres of protestants with pitchforks and nobody but you sees it?
Well would-be King of the South your country is doing well and I fully acknowledge that but it could not do such itelf and for decades limped along going nowhere. It was getting into the EU and like other small nations getting the bags of money it could not manage itself. So I have said here it is a better place than for a long time before the EU money bowl. Decades ago the Protestant population in the Republic was in double figures but mass burning and chasing out in those early times. Now with what is it around 2% such is a tiny number and does not equate with what traditionally once was. Yet even today the Orange Lodge in Dublin cannot even get a parade in the capital? Last one I think was before WW2. When the Order a while back was celebrating it's length of existence a parade - just a small one was applied for to walk down a Dublin street to mark where the early HQ was. Then the threats came out and idea dropped. I can also recall several years back there was a community parade to be held out in Cork and the city organisers invited the OO to be in the street parade and was a very good example of broad attitudes. But again threats and the Order felt is should avoid it. And more recently and I mean recently two Orange halls were burned in County Donegal. Most Donegal people of both religions were shocked and angry at that.
I will conclude by this. It was very impressive when that lady who served as President went up north and visited the national Orange HQ and impressive museum and the present prime minister has done that too so well done Ireland but as I point out there are still practicalities that are spoiling such impressive progresses.
Protestants have always been a small minority on the island most times numbered in thousands while Catholics were in the millions. Its a miracle they have still survived. Their life has always been between a rock and a hard place and it hasn't changed. Still under siege.
Really? Not that difficult when as a community you're being propped up by one of the worlds biggest colonial superpowers.
What about Catholics in Northern Ireland from its inception since 1921, isn't it a miracle they too have survived being a minority in country that was openly hostile to them for many years, people like your former prime minister saying things such as:
Many in this audience employ Catholics, but I have not one about my place. Catholics are out to destroy Ulster...If we in Ulster allow Roman Catholics to work on our farms we are traitors to Ulster...I would appeal to loyalists, therefore, wherever possible, to employ good Protestant lads and lassies.
Well would-be King of the South your country is doing well and I fully acknowledge that but it could not do such itelf and for decades limped along going nowhere. It was getting into the EU and like other small nations getting the bags of money it could not manage itself. So I have said here it is a better place than for a long time before the EU money bowl. Decades ago the Protestant population in the Republic was in double figures but mass burning and chasing out in those early times. Now with what is it around 2% such is a tiny number and does not equate with what traditionally once was. Yet even today the Orange Lodge in Dublin cannot even get a parade in the capital? Last one I think was before WW2. When the Order a while back was celebrating it's length of existence a parade - just a small one was applied for to walk down a Dublin street to mark where the early HQ was. Then the threats came out and idea dropped. I can also recall several years back there was a community parade to be held out in Cork and the city organisers invited the OO to be in the street parade and was a very good example of broad attitudes. But again threats and the Order felt is should avoid it. And more recently and I mean recently two Orange halls were burned in County Donegal. Most Donegal people of both religions were shocked and angry at that.
I will conclude by this. It was very impressive when that lady who served as President went up north and visited the national Orange HQ and impressive museum and the present prime minister has done that too so well done Ireland but as I point out there are still practicalities that are spoiling such impressive progresses.
Oh, just a point of information I’m American, albeit with Irish grandparents.
And point well taken about the Donegal Orange Lodge. Shameful stuff.
Now re the parading in Dublin - educate me. Are you saying that the Orange Lodge can’t get a permit under any circumstances to have a parade in Dublin?
Still under siege? Isn’t it strange that the minority of protestants in the Republic of Ireland are happy to live there? If they were under siege, the siege would not have lasted more than a month.
Are you privy to some secret news source that is kept hidden from the rest of the world by magic? Are Catholics burning down protestant churches in the Republic and poking the derrieres of protestants with pitchforks and nobody but you sees it?
The Protestants in the 26 counties were small in number and had to accept what happened. Also they were being murdered as well so it was a matter of live with it or get out. Many chose the latter and those that remained kept quiet.
Some Protestant churches in the 26 counties were recently attacked. An Orange Hall in Donegal was burned to the ground.
Last edited by Ulsterman; 02-08-2019 at 04:51 AM..
I know your post is addressed to rj but couldn't believe what I was reading. You equate the DUP to Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein is the political wing of the IRA. The IRA/Sinn Fein were responsible for 58% of the killings during the 'troubles'. The biggest by far of any others involved in the 'troubles' How many killings were the DUP involved in ?
As I have already mentioned a few times ( but you don't seem to want to know) the PUP is the political wing of the UVF. That is the comparison which should be made.....IRA and Sinn Fein UVF and PUP
Sometimes I wonder whether you understand what I am getting at, or assume I am 180 degrees from you, and read something more into my thought process.
For example, and while trying not to be redundant, if SF is the largest hardcore political party believing in Nationalism/Republicanism, is it not fair to say that the DUP is the largest hardcore political party representing Unionism/Loyalism
You can elaborate, but please start with a Yes or No answer.
This is of course does not mean that I think SF & the DUP evolved from the same egg.
As an aside, the irony of you mentioning the PUP is that while they are small and have had very little political power, they signed on to the GFA, where the DUP did not.
So which one between the DUP or the PUP would be considered more hardcore back in the late 1990's ?
.... At one time Scotland and Ulster were one country whether that would ever be the case again is dubious though there has been talk of a bridge being built from Ulster to Scotland. Even Boris Johnston has backed this but bringing it to fruition is another matter.
No, to what is in bold.
At the time that Irish settled in Scotland they only settled a portion of the present-day area of Scotland. And as Scotland evolved into a single country there was no connexion.
I think parts of Scotland and Ireland was unified in a cultural sense, but to my knowledge they weren't unified under a single political entity, prior to the United Kingdom of course.
Sometimes I wonder whether you understand what I am getting at, or assume I am 180 degrees from you, and read something more into my thought process.
For example, and while trying not to be redundant, if SF is the largest hardcore political party believing in Nationalism/Republicanism, is it not fair to say that the DUP is the largest hardcore political party representing Unionism/Loyalism
You can elaborate, but please start with a Yes or No answer.
This is of course does not mean that I think SF & the DUP evolved from the same egg.
As an aside, the irony of you mentioning the PUP is that while they are small and have had very little political power, they signed on to the GFA, where the DUP did not.
So which one between the DUP or the PUP would be considered more hardcore back in the late 1990's ?
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Once again you are not comparing like with like. You evade time after time when it is pointed out that the DUP did not have a murder gang wing. Sinn Fein does.
I have said time and again that the PUP like Sinn Fein have a murder gang wing. That is comparing like with like. Its as simple as that but of course you will continue on as you have ignoring what is obvious.
I think those that murder are more hardcore than those who on principle refuse to sign a document.
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