Is there a tipping point when cities reach irreverisble decline? (subway, sidewalk)
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Not true. White and black couples in any rural or small town environment whether it be in New England or the deep south will most likely be looked upon under disapproving eyes. Probably more so in New England since that area of the country is 95% white.
In metro areas in the south, white and black couples are about as common as they are anywhere else in the country.
I've never been in the rural south or rural Maine/New England etc. I don't doubt it's true an many rural places, I'm just speaking from my experience. Im not sure why I'd spend time in those places anyways but I know there are still people stuck in the past. However, I've just never thought like that... luckily I seem to come across like-minded folk.
Not true. White and black couples in any rural or small town environment whether it be in New England or the deep south will most likely be looked upon under disapproving eyes. Probably more so in New England since that area of the country is 95% white.
In metro areas in the south, white and black couples are about as common as they are anywhere else in the country.
Black people in this country are suffering from a case of arrested development. Blacks have only been truly free, first class citizens for about 40 to 50 years. When you take that fact into consideration and the history of black people in this country it is not hard to understand why the may appear to be lagging behind other groups in education attainment and median income. You also have to take into consideration the devastating impact of the welfare state and drugs on the black community. Prior to the civil rights era, black people were not victims of the welfare mentality that is prevalent in many poor communities (of all races). The marriage rate was higher because it was an economic necessity for black people to marry, cohabitate, and merge income. I agree that the general condition of the black family was much better off prior to 1970, but I can also see what went wrong. While well intentioned, the great society programs have really had a negative impact on the black community due to the way they were implemented. Any program that is designed to take the man out of the home is not going to be a good thing for strengthening the family, but that is exactly what those policies did.
With that being said, I believe that the black middle class is much bigger today than it was prior to 1970. I also think that the number of black college graduates is much higher today that prior to 1970. As more time passes you will see these numbers continue to increase, and as they do the black community will improve as well.
Think about this for a second. What percentage of black people that are say 30 years old or older have a grandparent that graduated from college? What do you think the percentages are for white people? This discrepancy is not due to lack of motivation it is purely due to lack of opportunity for people in that era to attain the highest level of education. What effect do you think that would have on a community as a whole?
All of what you said sounds good in theory, but why are Hispanics, Asians, Middle Easterners, and even other Black people from Africa able to come over here from third world countries without a dime in their pockets, and in many cases without an education either, and outwork Black Americans and surpass us on the socioeconomic ladder in only a handful of years or in a couple of generations, much less in "40 or 50 years"? As first generation immigrants prove in America year in and out, it doesn't take that long to get it right. Most Black folks these days just don't care to even try to.
All of what you said sounds good in theory, but why are Hispanics, Asians, Middle Easterners, and even other Black people from Africa able to come over here from third world countries without a dime in their pockets, and in many cases without an education either, and outwork Black Americans and surpass us on the socioeconomic ladder in only a handful of years or in a couple of generations, much less in "40 or 50 years"?
Why, becuase 50 years isn't enough to undo the f_cked-uppedness of the black community in general.
Recall there was multiple generations of slavery prior to Emancipation, then after Emancipation another 100 years or so of both customary and legal discrimination/segregation.
So there are, (IMO), a lot of deeply ingrained patterns of self-defeating/self-destructive behavior that arose in response, that has to be overcome.
Probably one of the best illustrations of how discrimination & prejudice played out in the post-slavery era is Richard Wrights autobiography "Black Boy". It shows what happened to blacks who tried to rise up. Have enough of this going on and the "lesson" was to not even try.
To compare this social history and its consequences with immigrant blacks from Africa ??? I doubt the situations are the same.
Why, becuase 50 years isn't enough to undo the f_cked-uppedness of the black community in general.
You're dodging the question, and a very straight forward one at that. You think Mexico, Sub-Saharan Africa, etc. are f&%$ed up?!? Yeah, they are...and even more so than ANY part of America. Yet we stand aside and let them come over here and outwork us and step on top of our heads up the socioeconomic ladder; they come from thousands of miles away from other countries and even other continents to take advantage of rights and privileges that we are BORN with as U.S. citizens and that so many of our ancestors have fought and died for us to have while we just squander them (and they do it in one to two generations, not "40 or 50 years"). There's really no excuse for that these days, no matter how you try to frame it.
Last edited by Carlito Brigante; 03-20-2013 at 06:51 AM..
No I'm not. Despite the political and economic situation that pushes migrants to the US they are coming here with a different attitude than the locals. That they are coming here is already a marker of more drive.
Besides, I thought this was a thread about the black community and tipping points for urban decline, not about immigration. If you want to complain about immigration I suggest you post on this thread
Not true. White and black couples in any rural or small town environment whether it be in New England or the deep south will most likely be looked upon under disapproving eyes. Probably more so in New England since that area of the country is 95% white.
I doubt it in rural New England, there's not really much of a history of racial tension. At worst they'd considered a curiosity. Having less blacks does not equal more disapproval, I don't they're even connected.
You're dodging the question. You think Mexico, Sub-Saharan Africa, etc. are f&%$ed up?!? Yeah, they are...and even moreso than ANY part of America. Yet we stand aside and let them come over here and outwork us and step on top of our heads up the socioeconomic ladder; they come from thousands of miles away from other countries and even other continents to take advantage of rights and privileges that we are BORN with as U.S. citizens and that so many of our ancestors have fought and died for us to have while we just squander them (and they do it in one to two generations, not "40 or 50 years"). There's really no excuse for that these days, no matter how you try to frame it.
You don't get extra privileges in this country for having ancestors who lived here for generations.
All of what you said sounds good in theory, but why are Hispanics, Asians, Middle Easterners, and even other Black people from Africa able to come over here from third world countries without a dime in their pockets, and in many cases without an education either, and outwork Black Americans and surpass us on the socioeconomic ladder in only a handful of years or in a couple of generations, much less in "40 or 50 years"? As first generation immigrants prove in America year in and out, it doesn't take that long to get it right. Most Black folks these days just don't care to even try to.
How many first generation immigrants come to this country with a welfare mentality? I believe that is the best answer I can give to your question. When you have approximately 1/3 of a population of people living off some form of welfare, many who have been in this condition for probably 2 generations, you create a reprobate mindset in that group of people. This is a mindset that does not value hard work or education. Anytime you give people something for nothing, they will not strive to do better. Many will just sit back in their current condition. The people who rise out of this group and end up graduating into the American middle class are the ones who would not settle for the “first of the moth” lifestyle.
If black Americans would have been allowed to develop properly (i.e. first class citizenship) from the reconstruction era after the Civil War to the present you would not see many of the problems that you see in the black community today. As I stated earlier, black Americans have only been truly free for 40 to 50 years and most of that time period coincides with the great society, welfare state heaped upon the community. It is really not that difficult to understand.
You don't get extra privileges in this country for having ancestors who lived here for generations.
What are you talking about? I'm obviously referring to the fact that immigrants come to the U.S. to take advantage of opportunities and privileges that don't exist in their home countries, such as political rights, freedoms, education, the opportunity to own your own business, etc. Are those not opportunities, privileges, and rights that Americans are born with and granted as U.S. citizens? That's why immigrants move to America and try to become U.S. citizens, to enjoy the same things that we do. What's so hard to understand about that?
Last edited by Carlito Brigante; 03-20-2013 at 08:03 AM..
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