Is there a tipping point when cities reach irreverisble decline? (map, suburban)
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Another factor with marriage rates is that they are down among all races. Single parenthood is also up in all races and doesn't get into divorce and the historical breakdown of the nuclear family for Black folks since arrival. So, even that isn't as cut and dry as people think it is.
Thank you for pointing that out. Marriage rates over all have dropped. Birth rates have also dropped. Often, this is what some people often forget.
BINGO!!!! But even then, you have to ask yourself: How come you can take a community of equally poor and uneducated white folks in, say a trailer park, and when you compare it to the poor, uneducated black neighborhood, the crime still isn't anywhere near as bad as in the poor white neighborhood even though they are both equally poor?
To me, this indicates that black people not only need to work harder and place more value on education, but many of them also need to work on their character, morals and ethics as well. And really, if they'd take care of the latter, then the former would be a breeze.
The stats are pretty clear about the differentials in crime between white and black. This is factual. WHY this is happening is a good question and a very touchy one.
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That's why the a lot of the whites who worked at the same industrial factories in places like Detroit, Flint, Baltimore, etc. were able to transition out of the inner cities and to the suburbs while blacks stayed behind to make up the majority of the rotten, crime and poverty filled cities that they are in today.
My question is what happened to all the whites who got layed off from those auto-industry jobs in Detroit, Flint, etc. Not everyone who was working in those plants was black.
But, yeah....
One of the arguments is that yes indeed the blacks were entering the middle class based on better-paying factory jobs but changes in the auto-industry caused them to feel the hit of automation and unemployment first, since they...most of them...were entering the Northern industrial workforce just as the plants were starting to offer less work.
So basically the ones who came earlier might have had enough seniority to hang on to retirement. You know these folks...the elderly black couple with the little yard and tidy bungalow....well maintained...surrounded by a bunch of vacant lots and empty houses.
The ones who didnt come soon enough are the ones who lost their jobs, never could find ones that payed enough, and that became the basis for the urban underclass.
Or this industrial downsizing affected their kids, who never got that leg-up to go to colleges, since their dad couldn't help out with tuition since he didnt have that good paying assembly line or machinest job that payed enough to help out.
Yet there were more Black owned businesses and more Black self-sufficiency prior to desegregation. That says a lot.
Moreover, the problem I see even with many middle class Blacks these days is that even though they pull themselves out of poverty, they never lose their ghetto mentality and attitude. This also presents a huge problem to the present day Black community, as Blacks like that might as well have just stayed in the hood with the poor lower class Blacks instead of trying to take the hood with them where ever they go. That's a recipe for disaster.
Actually, the rate of business ownership for Blacks in 1950 was 4.1%, and it was 4.1% in 1990. The highest rate of Black business ownership was in 1940, and that number dropped to 4.1% in 1950. It dropped before desegregation started. From 2002 to 2007, the rate of Black business ownership increased at a rate of 60.5%. It increased to 1.9 million Black-owned businesses. This was more than triple the increase rate for the nation.
Any problems among middle class Blacks aren't nearly as high as among the poorest Blacks. Chances are, the crime rate among middle class Blacks are much lower than among the poorest of Blacks.
I take what is being said quite personal. Well, I didn't really feel like arguing with anyone, but I have alot of things on my mind that I feel need to be said.
The cities mentioned were cities that were home to major industries. For Detroit and Flint, it was the automobile industry. Baltimore, Cleveland, Birmingham, and Gary once employed large numbers of people in the steel industry. Now there are large numbers of unemployed in the cities. Decline of industry in combination of racial tensions made things go bad.
The way I see it, certain questions are not being answered. Alot of people want to say "it's because theses cities are majority Black that they decline". Well, this is what I see. If you replaced the poorest Blacks with professional, entrepreneurial, law-abiding, and educated Blacks, things were turn around quickly. However, that hasn't happened.
Whites were the first ones to leave. By design, Blacks were kept in the cities because for the most part, they were not welcomed in most suburbs. Blacks were often kept from living in certain neighborhoods as well. Many did not want Blacks around, period. When certain laws prohibiting Blacks from living in certain places were struck down or declared unenforceable, many Blacks started leaving the cities as well. This is the thing to understand. Blacks who had the finances and the jobs left many neighborhoods for other neighborhoods, or left the city altogether for the suburbs. Who was more likely to stay behind? Was it the professional Blacks, or was it the poorest Blacks?
There is more to this than meets the eye. It is more than just "Blacks move in, everything goes down". It is not that simple, nor it is that way.
Better to ask these questions:
1) Why did professional Blacks leave the cities?
2) Why are the poor often the ones left behind?
The way I see it, these cities are majority Black, not because Blacks as of recent decided to make these cities their new homes. These cities are majority Black because many people did not want Blacks around them, and then later on in history, Blacks who had the means left the cities as well. Those who were left behind were often the poor and Black. Race is more a correlation. Correlation is not causation.
Great points and great questions you raise, but the race tensions you speak of was mostly mitigated to the 1950's thru early 1970's. It's been 40 years, things have only gotten worse, and the majority of the urban city poor are poor blacks. They've had 40 years to move out of the city proper or to begin developing a professional set of skills. You're right, there is more to this than meets the eye.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned that Washington DC was over 70% black in the 1970 and 1980 censuses, but has clearly reversed its decline. It was down to just over 50% black in 2010 however, so it's pretty clear it will no longer be a majority black city by 2020.
Still, it shows there is no magic 70% threshold. If you give white people a reason to move back to an overwhelmingly black city they will.
Some cities can do it. Washington D.C. prospered as the Federal Government exploded with new jobs under both Bush Jr. and Obama, thousands of new government jobs were added to the area bringing in a lot of young white professionals gentrifying the old and rundown neighborhoods of the old D.C.
A lot of other cities aren't backed mostly by the Federal government. Only one I can think off the top of my head would be Huntsville Alabama, on a much smaller scale of course.
Great points and great questions you raise, but the race tensions you speak of was mostly mitigated to the 1950's thru early 1970's. It's been 40 years, things have only gotten worse, and the majority of the urban city poor are poor blacks. They've had 40 years to move out of the city proper or to begin developing a professional set of skills. You're right, there is more to this than meets the eye.
Actually, racial tensions became very bad around the 1960s with the riots, with "Bombingham", with all kinds of unrest in the 1960s, and some of it continued even into the 70s. Detroit had riots into the 70s.
I mentioned this before. Blacks are the people who were left behind in the rush for urban flight. That is why poor Blacks make up the majority of the urban poor. And this poverty has become generational. Those who made the money left. Those who couldn't make it were stuck. It is a cycle.
And within 40 years, alot of money has left certain places. Alot of capital has left certain places.
Some cities can do it. Washington D.C. prospered as the Federal Government exploded with new jobs under both Bush Jr. and Obama, thousands of new government jobs were added to the area bringing in a lot of young white professionals gentrifying the old and rundown neighborhoods of the old D.C.
A lot of other cities aren't backed mostly by the Federal government. Only one I can think off the top of my head would be Huntsville Alabama, on a much smaller scale of course.
Here is another important question. Considering that there are both young White professionals and young Blacks professionals, why are young Black professionals less likely to take part in gentrifying old, rundown neighborhoods and Whites are more likely to do this?
Intriguing analysis I happen to be a young African American professional trying to help rebuild his community but its where I lived and grew up all my life so its personal I guess and affects me differently than young people moving into some unknown neighborhood and gentrifying it. That has been happening in other sections of my city with much success. Many of these neighborhoods had African American populations and still do today though not as high of concentrations.
Great points and great questions you raise, but the race tensions you speak of was mostly mitigated to the 1950's thru early 1970's. It's been 40 years, things have only gotten worse, and the majority of the urban city poor are poor blacks. They've had 40 years to move out of the city proper or to begin developing a professional set of skills. You're right, there is more to this than meets the eye.
Depends on the city. In New York City, Hispanics are poorer than blacks and there are more Hispanics than blacks (the South Bronx is mostly a Hispanic ghetto). A similar situation may example in New England. And obviously, the urban poor of California is more hispanic than black. The black inner city population only seems worse than forty years ago because those that have the means to do so have left, to better city neighborhoods or suburbs, while only the poor are left.
Depends on the city. In New York City, Hispanics are poorer than blacks and there are more Hispanics than blacks (the South Bronx is mostly a Hispanic ghetto). A similar situation may example in New England. And obviously, the urban poor of California is more hispanic than black. The black inner city population only seems worse than forty years ago because those that have the means to do so have left, to better city neighborhoods or suburbs, while only the poor are left.
You have pointed out something important. I've also pointed out as well. Only the poor have been left behind. You have also pointed something else out even more important. It does depend on city. In Oakland and New York, you are going to see more poor Hispanic people. One reason is that there are more Hispanic residents in those cities.
Those who had the means left a long time ago. That has happened in so many cities. For many Blacks, things are better than ever. For those persons unable to secure an education or a decent job, times are quite hard. It is also important to consider the role drugs have played in the inner cities.
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