What's So Great About Density? (Atlanta, Decatur: maintenance, organic, to live)

[researchnerd]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Sunbelt or not, a core of a major city should be able to be livable...this is my argument....things that happen in the core should not affect the suburbs other then transportation between the two points...The suburbs can keep the ugly strip malls...I just want a dense core that I can live in.

Atlanta will always still be looked at as a sunbelt city because of it's sprawling suburbs, not because of the current status of it's core.

So, you don't like the suburbs. I recommend you stay out of them.

It sounds like you believe a city core is not livable unless it's dense. How do you measure this density, and whether it's enough to be livable? Is it number of people, restaurants, office buildings, bars, grocery stores? Do parks count, or are those too sprawly?

Also, you might check your definition of "sunbelt." The 1969 definition is "oil, military, aerospace and retirement country stretching from Florida to California", after the industries that boomed there back in the 1950s. However, the modern definition is a warm-temperate climate with extended summers and brief, relatively mild winters, focused on the southern tier of the United States: Florida, Texas, Arizona, California, extending as far north as Virginia. Either way, sprawl is not part of the equation.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by researchnerd

So, you don't like the suburbs. I recommend you stay out of them.

It sounds like you believe a city core is not livable unless it's dense. How do you measure this density, and whether it's enough to be livable? Is it number of people, restaurants, office buildings, bars, grocery stores? Do parks count, or are those too sprawly?

Also, you might check your definition of "sunbelt." The 1969 definition is "oil, military, aerospace and retirement country stretching from Florida to California", after the industries that boomed there back in the 1950s. However, the modern definition is a warm-temperate climate with extended summers and brief, relatively mild winters, focused on the southern tier of the United States: Florida, Texas, Arizona, California, extending as far north as Virginia. Either way, sprawl is not part of the equation.

I'm not really living in the suburbs because it was my choice...I'm living with my parents until I am done with university(I'm 20). Once I can find a job as a computer programmer in another city, I will move.

I lived in downtown Atlanta for my first 2 years of university and it was not livable. This is where many of my gripes come from.

Density is a mix of all of those you mentioned...you generally need people to support the retail on the ground or the retail won't live. This includes grocery stores, diners, bars, corner stores, and the likes.

Parks help with greenspace which is something every city must have. If I went against parks, I would have to be against Central park which I think is a jewel in NYC and completes the city.

Higher local density also helps create more tourist density as there would be more for the tourist to see and look for. With diners, you have more out of towners walking around to those diners and eating there. Tourists would be more willing to spend more time within a dense core and help strengthen the city's economy.

[cqholt]

Again, for those who choose to have a sincere discussion, this is the bottom line, people will take public transportation and/or walk in hotter climates if they have no other choice

NYC subway stations are very hot and stuffy. They don't even have those industrial sized fans that MARTA puts in its stations.
I think as more people move into the urban core, alternative forms of transportation will gain appeal to those close to stations. Unfortunately middle and high class people will not ride buses. The choice, suburban riders will not use transit until rail-based transit is close enough and competes with single-use cars in time. Adding density around suburban transit stations is a great way of creating dense walkable nodes around high use points. There are plans by Columbia Properties to transform the Edgewood/Candler Park Station's south parking lot into a dens, mixed use complex, compete with green space. It would be nice to see this plan replicated at other MARTA stations. Of course its being developed using zero-public(MARTA) funds, by a private company for a profit.

[rzzz]

I sort of feel for Ant. One thing I've noticed is that although ATL has 3 major universities, I have not seen a proper "student ghetto" type area anywhere. You know with coffee shops, cheap bars, book stores, pizza slices, etc. Georgia Tech surrounding environment seems pretty corporate. GSU is downtown, which is dead. Emory is up there in the woods. I have not seen anything like 4th street in Tucson, or Dinkytown in Minneapolis, or most all of Boulder, etc.

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by rzzz

I sort of feel for Ant. One thing I've noticed is that although ATL has 3 major universities, I have not seen a proper "student ghetto" type area anywhere. You know with coffee shops, cheap bars, book stores, pizza slices, etc. Georgia Tech surrounding environment seems pretty corporate. GSU is downtown, which is dead. Emory is up there in the woods. I have not seen anything like 4th street in Tucson, or Dinkytown in Minneapolis, or most all of Boulder, etc.

How often do you get to downtown? It certainly isn't dead, even though that is a common perception among suburbanites. It sounds like you don't know a lot about downtown Atlanta, at least not enough to comment on it.

Emory may be in the woods (as is much of Atlanta), but there is plenty of commercial development surrounding the campus that is geared toward students. Every heard of Emory Village?

Georgia Tech is the same way, with businesses along 10th and North that cater to students. There is also Tech Square...ever heard of that one?

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Most stations are enclosed or underground so how would heat affect people that much? And I did NOT say that it's public transportation or bust. There should be a MULTITUDE of options you can use at your disposal...driving should NOT be the only one. That's the problem. Even if we build transportation, streets and highways will still exists to this day. Driving isn't and will not go anywhere just because more rail and density is created in and around the core.


There's no wonder the south has the sloppiest, most unhealthy, fat ass people. And places like New York and chicago get up to temperatures in the high 80s and 90s many times in the summer. Heat has little to do with density. It seems you're trying to justify the fact that, you're right, most southerners are rather lazy and don't care to walk. They just want to drive up straight to the place hence the multitude of strip malls here.

Sunbelt or not, a core of a major city should be able to be livable...this is my argument....things that happen in the core should not affect the suburbs other then transportation between the two points...The suburbs can keep the ugly strip malls...I just want a dense core that I can live in.

Atlanta will always still be looked at as a sunbelt city because of it's sprawling suburbs, not because of the current status of it's core.

...he types from his parent's basement.

You can live in the dense core of Atlanta if you choose when you are able to afford it. Let me tell you, you wouldn't be living in any dense core of any city without an above-average salary, so get used to the lower density areas until you are at that level.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by JoeTarheel

How often do you get to downtown? It certainly isn't dead, even though that is a common perception among suburbanites. It sounds like you don't know a lot about downtown Atlanta, at least not enough to comment on it.

Emory may be in the woods (as is much of Atlanta), but there is plenty of commercial development surrounding the campus that is geared toward students. Every heard of Emory Village?

Georgia Tech is the same way, with businesses along 10th and North that cater to students. There is also Tech Square...ever heard of that one?

At night, downtown is dead. During the day, it's vibrant, but this is expected because of a mix of GSU students and business folks. After 8 pm, it dies down dramatically. It's like a ghost town.

I would love to still see plenty of people walking at 9-10 pm at night on the weekdays in downtown Atlanta.

Tech square is a great example of what the rest of the urban core SHOULD be like. If we had that in different parts of downtown, the whole area would be more desirable to live in.

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by JoeTarheel

...he types from his parent's basement.

You can live in the dense core of Atlanta if you choose when you are able to afford it. Let me tell you, you wouldn't be living in any dense core of any city without an above-average salary, so get used to the lower density areas until you are at that level.

That or with roommates.

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by Onthemove2014

That or with roommates.

True...and that certainly isn't the glamorous living situation people like that often dream about.

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

At night, downtown is dead. During the day, it's vibrant, but this is expected because of a mix of GSU students and business folks. After 8 pm, it dies down dramatically. It's like a ghost town.

I would love to still see plenty of people walking at 9-10 pm at night on the weekdays in downtown Atlanta.

Tech square is a great example of what the rest of the urban core SHOULD be like. If we had that in different parts of downtown, the whole area would be more desirable to live in.

We must have different ideas about "dead". Most downtowns slow down after dark, but there are still sections of downtown Atlanta that are active after 8:00. Try visiting downtown sometime and I'm sure you'll find specific areas that are still relatively busy...I always do.