Does Atlanta Have the worst big city downtown in the South? (Columbus: get credit, home)

[gerrythesnake]

LA subway system is crazy. You have to pay to transfer on each line. They also have a honor system. With Marta you have to swipe your Marta pass to enter Marta. In LA they have a honor system and most people dont pay to get on the train. Can you Imagine if Marta did that lol

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by stuckinsj

WOWWOWOWWWOW... I just started this thread yesterday and it already has 7 pages.

A couple of points.

1) I did do my research and knew there were alot of tourist things to do in downtown ATL. But i also like walking the streets like i do in every city i visit. I could have guessed the response i would have gotten on Citydata from people pushing neighborhoods outside downtown. I didnt have a car and didnt want to mess with the bus system.
2) Bashing Philly and me does not make downtown ATL better. Philly has loads of problems but its downtown is its strength, something to be showed off with pride.
3) Downtown ATL was built before the car just like Philly but Philly didnt bull doze so much after WWII (just wasnt as prosperous i guess).
4) Saying that Atlanta is great because its has some good neighborhoods, a strong economy, and lots of tourist attractions does not mean it has a good downtown.
5) People visit Philly with lower expectations and are blown away by downtown (called Center City) and other neighborhoods. ATL boosts alot which leads to high expectations that are really let down when visiting.
6) Clearly i struck a nerve to be getting this much attention. If you guys just admit Dowtown ATL has real problems that need addressing, i think the downtown could be better. Philly did this 25 years ago with the creation of Center City District and putting the pedestrian fist over the car.
7) Maybe it was a mistake of phrasing the topic as Is ATL the worst. I will be visiting Nashville, Orlando, Tampa, and Miami shortly and from my research (given the size of the regions and their reputations) i should be pleasantly surprised by their downtowns.

I think you are getting a lot of flack because of your answers here, especially point number one, you are trying to apply what you know a city to be versus the reality of what Atlanta "is". Given you are from Philly, you are used to how cities are in the Northeast. All of those cities experienced their major population booms before automobiles became common place. Since their booms were in the millions, that means that those cities are still focused on Downtown even though their population booms are over.

Atlanta on the other hand is a bit of an odd bird. You are correct that Downtown was developed before car ownership became common place, but unlike the Northeastern cities, our population growth has occurred in two phases. The boom that created the current Downtown Atlanta occurred in the late 19th and early 20th century. That's why Downtown looks eerily northeastern, since it is a by product of that time period northeastern center cities are known for. However, that population boom was "small" in comparison to that which the Northeastern cities experienced, so Downtown Atlanta never grew as large as thoughs or had as many ammenities since our population before the Depression was less than half a million.

Development in Atlanta was stagnate like pretty much everywhere else from the 1930s until the 1950s. Unlike the Northeastern cities however, Atlanta's population boom started again and we reached the millions we're at today. Of course, this period was also the time when car ownership was near universal, so our development patterns matched suit. Development didn't have to focus Downtown since mobility was not a factor.

That is why people keep mentioning other parts of the city. If you visit Atlanta, and only go Downtown, you aren't getting the full story. Going to Midtown, Buckhead, or the Eastside gives you the full Atlanta and not just one slice of it that until very recently was neglected. That is also why I bolded the last part of your first point in the above. Saying you didn't have a car and didn't want to deal with "the bus system" is just a lazy answer. All of these other districts people mentioned are accessible by a quick trip on the train. If you pared your trip with seeing Downtown, Midtown, and Buckhead you would have walked away much more satisfied than you did.

[Ant131531]

LA is not far behind Atlanta when it comes to transit. Yes, much of their transit is light rail, it is still pretty extensive, usable and is growing tremendously. I can also take commuter rail and amtrak from OC from LA....you can't do anything like that in Atlanta.

Let's not even talk LA's bus system compared to ATL's.

[jamills21]

though I would argue about Chinatown since it is separated from the main part of DT LA by a huge freeway gulch and isn't a showcase place like Chinatowns in NYC or SF sadly given LA's rich Chinese history)

Anybody from LA would tell you Chinatown is in Downtown. By your Definition Union Station & Olveria St would't be part of Downtown either and that obviously is not the case. Also, LA might have like 5 Chinatowns in the San Gabriel Valley alone which is basically right next to DT Chinatown. Our Chinatown is actually going through gentrification and a housing boom as we speak.

It also has it's major problems too just like us. Skid Row is to DT LA as South Downtown and Pine Street is DT Atlanta (though, Skid Row blows our problems out the water)

.

No doubt about that

Just like Atlanta, the activity in LA is spread out throughout the city, and the most desirable areas are not Downtown and high end retail is elsewhere. While there has been a lot of development in both DTs, both still are plagued with gaps in development and an overabundance of surface parking lots.

I see what your saying and that is true to an extent. Downtown LA is VERY desirable now. Condos easily go in the millions. It is also attracting international clothing companies and has the hottest food scene in America. In about 5 years you will start to hear about Broadway as a premier Shopping Destination in America.

I think once those two networks are built out will ultimately be more successful than what LA is doing given we luckily built out a more expansive subway system in MARTA than LA's subway will ever be.

This is just what the rail system will look like by 2022 . The Expo line,LAX/Crenshaw Line, & Foothill extension should all be done by 2018. LA is denser than ATL will ever be and has more walk able neighborhoods as well.

[gerrythesnake]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

LA is not far behind Atlanta when it comes to transit. Yes, much of their transit is light rail, it is still pretty extensive, usable and is growing tremendously. I can also take commuter rail and amtrak from OC from LA....you can't do anything like that in Atlanta.

Let's not even talk LA's bus system compared to ATL's.

Compare a city that size to Chicago or NYC

[jamills21]

Originally Posted by gerrythesnake

LA subway system is crazy. You have to pay to transfer on each line. They also have a honor system. With Marta you have to swipe your Marta pass to enter Marta. In LA they have a honor system and most people dont pay to get on the train. Can you Imagine if Marta did that lol

1. All day passes are $5
2. The honor system was just abolished

[jamills21]

Originally Posted by gerrythesnake

Compare a city that size to Chicago or NYC

Obviously....I thought we were comparing it with ATL tho

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by jamills21

Anybody from LA would tell you Chinatown is in Downtown. By your Definition Union Station & Olveria St would't be part of Downtown either and that obviously is not the case. Also, LA might have like 5 Chinatowns in the San Gabriel Valley alone which is basically right next to DT Chinatown. Our Chinatown is actually going through gentrification and a housing boom as we speak.

Yes, I know it is literally in Downtown, but thanks to the freeway it is disconnected from the district as a whole. As you yourself say, the place to be for Asian culture is a way from Downtown currently just like it is in Atlanta.

Originally Posted by jamills21

This is just what the rail system will look like by 2022 . The Expo line,LAX/Crenshaw Line, & Foothill extension should all be done by 2018. LA is denser than ATL will ever be and has more walk able neighborhoods as well.

Yes, I know about LA's transit plan. I like it and I hope it is successful. As it stands right now though, it will be an uphill battle to level the playing field. Despite the higher density and population, transit usage is far lower in LA than Atlanta by percentage. Transit in LA has 1.5 million daily trips versus MARTA's 412,000. While on paper that seems like a big deal, it isn't. There are 9.8 million people living in LA county versus the 1.5 million in Dekalb and Fulton County.

While neither city is currently renowned for it's transit, nearly a quarter of MARTA service population uses it on daily basis versus around 10% of LA county's. While I have no doubt LA will increase ridership significantly with it's improvements, it's going to take quite a bit to reach Atlanta's currently level. But I wish them all the luck in doing so.

[MiamiRob]

Originally Posted by bhammaster

Would anybody actually think to go to downtown Miami? NO! Downtown Orlando? NO! Downtown LA? NO! Downtown (CBD) New Orleans? NO! Downtown Vegas? HELL TO THE NO!

So why would Atlanta be an exception? Research first.

downtown MIAMI?: YES (come see how many charter tours we have from Brazil to shop in downtown daily)

downtown ORLANDO?: NO

downtown LA : YES (Quite vibrant)

downtown NO? : include the French Quarter? YES

downtown VEGAS? : NO

downtown ATLANTA? : Where are the strip clubs?

[ThreeSides]

Originally Posted by bhammaster

Miami

Las Vegas

Houston

Dallas

Detroit

LA

Phoenix

Orlando

Also, what is "awful" is subjective. You explain to me why you think these downtowns are better and more vibrant then Atlanta's since you are attempting making that claim.

Nope, in fact, I couldn't care less. Have you ever been to downtown Detroit?