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I can see both of your points, and twange, are you having a sensitive day (I'm just kidding, btw) I actually agree with both of you. From the age of 5/6 to 16, I lived in Brazoria, a town that doesn't have sidewalks, except in the main old downtown part. I grew up walking on the roadside or in the grass getting my shoes dirty, and to this day, I believe that's what shoes are for (Unlike my sister who has a near hernia anytime any part of her body touches dirt). Then I was in Houston, where I walked everywhere almost, but there were sidewalks mainly. Skip to Denver and I was stunned at how great it is for pedestrians there. Wide bike lanes, wide sidewalks for the most part, an extensive trail system that spanned the entire area, including quite a few suburbs, and with a new short stretch, could actually reach to Boulder. You can literally ride your bike from Aurora to downtown or Cherry Creek or almost Lakewood. You couldn't quite ride to Highlands ranch or anything, but I bet you could ride your bike from Highlands Ranch to Castle Rock if you had to. And in some neighborhoods in Denver and also in the mountain towns, they painted lines across the roads where cars are required to stop if someone is crossing. No stop lights or blinking light crossings, just crosswalk lines painted on the road where pedestrians have the right of way. You get ticketed if you don't stop for them. This is where I'm with twange. I would LOVE for Austin and the suburbs to do this. I would love an extensive trail system that would come even from Hutto to Austin. What I loved about the trail system in Denver was that some was unimproved (unpaved), some was paved. There were benches to sit on if you got tired and needed to rest, and some parts of the trail had picnic tables and water fountains (not all parts, but some). Other things that were neat about it were that there are maps to tell you where you are, historical markers if you go past something of significance, the pretty scenery (some parts of the trails were along rivers or creeks) or would run through the outsides of towns but sort of near cafes, or diners so you could get something to eat or drink....I'm still crossing my fingers for that to happen here!
I can see both of your points, and twange, are you having a sensitive day (I'm just kidding, btw) I actually agree with both of you. From the age of 5/6 to 16, I lived in Brazoria, a town that doesn't have sidewalks, except in the main old downtown part. I grew up walking on the roadside or in the grass getting my shoes dirty, and to this day, I believe that's what shoes are for (Unlike my sister who has a near hernia anytime any part of her body touches dirt). Then I was in Houston, where I walked everywhere almost, but there were sidewalks mainly. Skip to Denver and I was stunned at how great it is for pedestrians there. Wide bike lanes, wide sidewalks for the most part, an extensive trail system that spanned the entire area, including quite a few suburbs, and with a new short stretch, could actually reach to Boulder. You can literally ride your bike from Aurora to downtown or Cherry Creek or almost Lakewood. You couldn't quite ride to Highlands ranch or anything, but I bet you could ride your bike from Highlands Ranch to Castle Rock if you had to. And in some neighborhoods in Denver and also in the mountain towns, they painted lines across the roads where cars are required to stop if someone is crossing. No stop lights or blinking light crossings, just crosswalk lines painted on the road where pedestrians have the right of way. You get ticketed if you don't stop for them. This is where I'm with twange. I would LOVE for Austin and the suburbs to do this. I would love an extensive trail system that would come even from Hutto to Austin. What I loved about the trail system in Denver was that some was unimproved (unpaved), some was paved. There were benches to sit on if you got tired and needed to rest, and some parts of the trail had picnic tables and water fountains (not all parts, but some). Other things that were neat about it were that there are maps to tell you where you are, historical markers if you go past something of significance, the pretty scenery (some parts of the trails were along rivers or creeks) or would run through the outsides of towns but sort of near cafes, or diners so you could get something to eat or drink....I'm still crossing my fingers for that to happen here!
THL and Roses,
I prefer the term "passionate"
Denver is very cool. In fact it's been awhile since I've been there...I have a friend from Cleveland who moved there last year. Might need to take a trip soon.
And lets put to rest the "getting your shoes dirty" angle. My goodness, I hope I've made it clear that is not my reason for taking this stance on Austin's pedestrian infrastructure. I'm an avid hiker/backpacker...I've walked some trails most people will never go. I'm a pretty rugged critter
Anyway, your post is re-enforcing my point: Brazoria is a small town on the outskirts of Houston correct? A quick glance at the demographics lists the town with a population of about 2,700. Towns of this size(even bigger) can afford not to spend money and time on things like sidewalks. There simply isn't a reason to do it except in their old "downtown strip" where folks are most likely to walk anyway. The city of Austin has about 710,000, the metro area about 1.5 million...and counting. I know that some people don't like it, but Austin is a medium-sized city. It is not the smaller, Capital/University city it was 20, 30, 40 years ago. Whether that's good or bad is not my point.
I think I'm being fair about this. Anyone who's ever taken the time to read my garble on this forum knows how much I'm enjoying living here. I defend Austin when I think I need to. This and Public Transit are my only real complaints(well, that and the cost of a nice old house in the city!).
I know that it seems like I'm picking on small stuff but I do it because I really like the city and don't want it to "cut off its nose to spite its face," and I think too many folks are ambivalent about things like this. I think it would make the city safer and more livable with it's current(and future) population. I swear ain't trying to ruin Austin or make it like some other town. It's OK to borrow ideas from other places. I really doubt that thoughtful pedestrian design would ruin Austin's vibe.
p.s. I used to b*tch about similar stuff in the Cleveland area(And yes, it annoyed them too). Ironically, that area has great pedestrian design but nobody really uses it because most of the shops are empty...no places to walk to anymore
You do realize, however, that some people do object to the idea of sidewalks being put in their neighborhoods, because they feel it would negatively impact the livability and ambiance of quality of life where they live, right?
As I said, I'm fine either way, but there is a contingency that disagrees with you that they would be an improvement, and they need to be listened to just as much as you are. (You in the generic, people who think sidewalks are a sign of civilization sense, not you, specifically.)
I only belabor the point because that's the case in many of the changes that new people just can't understand why those that have been here a while don't jump on the bandwagon for. It's because they don't agree that said changes would be an improvement, and in many cases, after due consideration, mind, think that they would be the opposite.
You do realize, however, that some people do object to the idea of sidewalks being put in their neighborhoods, because they feel it would negatively impact the livability and ambiance of quality of life where they live, right?
As I said, I'm fine either way, but there is a contingency that disagrees with you that they would be an improvement, and they need to be listened to just as much as you are. (You in the generic, people who think sidewalks are a sign of civilization sense, not you, specifically.)
I only belabor the point because that's the case in many of the changes that new people just can't understand why those that have been here a while don't jump on the bandwagon for. It's because they don't agree that said changes would be an improvement, and in many cases, after due consideration, mind, think that they would be the opposite.
THl,
Please, I want to clarify that for me, this issue is much, much bigger than Austin. But Austin is where I live, so that's why I'm talking in the context of this city.
I am aware that some people don't want sidewalks in their neighborhoods, it usually has to do with money and/or personal property. I hear you. I had to pay for some slabs(tripping hazards, I was told) in front of my old house even though technically the city owned them. That sure p*ssed me off(and that's another topic). But I couldn't have imagined not having a sidewalk. The lack of them suggests an ambivalence towards walking culture that seems to undermine Austin's supposed "green" personality. Just get in your car and drive. And don't walk in front of my house
Honestly, I would be satisfied with major "improvements" on much of the city's existing sidewalk infrastructure, particularly on busy streets where the public's presence is the majority. Better crosswalks, barriers from the street, curb ramps for the blind and disabled etc...I live off of S 1st (which is a ghastly street to walk on), but frequent S. Congress, S Lamar, Cumberland, Lightsey, Oltorf. They're all pretty bad. I regularly see a person in a disability scooter riding along a raggedy strip of gravel and grass and then plopping down into the street and trying not to get creamed. And I'm talking about business districts where there's a lot to do and people are out walking around. Crossing S. Congress is just horrible. I can't believe that the city has let that go for this long. I mean that's one of the trendiest areas in town and I can't tell you how many times I see people criss-crossing every which way...it's just not good. For the life of me I can't see logical opposition to improving places like these.
Please tell me!
And PS, thank you for indulging me in this debate. My wife is sick to death of the subject...but I'm an Aquarius so I never quit!
When I see someone in a disability scooter or a wheelchair, trying to negotiate their way through auto traffic, around utility poles, tree roots, gravel, 6 inch high curbs...I see a severe lack of walking culture and infrastructure. To me this is a UNIVERSAL CITY ISSUE, not a scheme to make Austin NYC.
Thank you. My brother is in a wheelchair. He's not the sort to complain, but much of the "Austin experience" is off-limits to people like him.
Hey, I'm a Scorpio, don't talk to me about holding on to things!
Part of it is that Austin is still, in many areas, still semi-rural, small town, and a lot of folks love that ambiance and the fact that it's NOT a "big city". I understand your concerns - particularly for the wheel chair-bound person that you mention. I also understand the point of those who don't want their neighborhoods, their home, "citified" by outsiders.
A lot is in the presentation, I think. We've had plenty of examples here (and they exist in the offline world, as well) of people coming in and denigrating the city they moved to because it's not just like where they came from and, worse, the people there don't WANT to be just like where they came from. That's not conducive to convincing people that maybe your ideas have some merit. Nor is not listening when they say, "Well, we considered it, but decided against it," or, "Gee, that sounds like a bad idea for here for these reasons." (Reasons can include it simply being in conflict with the personality of an area, by the way - that's absolutely valid, because the personality of an area is part of what makes it "home".)
We've also had examples of people digging in their heels against ANY change, of course, and that's not conducive to being taken seriously or convincing people who want to make over Austin into what they liked best about their old home that they need to, instead, look at what Austin is and, first, love those things about it BEFORE advocating for any change.
Neither approach, from either side, accomplishes much more than lots of discussion on message boards.
Ack! I'm a Scorpio too Maybe that's why I see things the way you do, for the most part. But, on this one, I'm like twange (who I think should be adopted as a good Texan, btw). Even though growing up in a small town, I just love sidewalks and can't figure out why someone wouldn't like them. They aren't as wide as a street or anything, so they don't take up that much space. The ramps are great as well, but I'm looking at it from more of a biking perspective (or strollers, for those with kids).
Hot weather - Compared to What? I'm from Houston, That's hot. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
High property taxes - You know what, Taxes may be a little high, but Texas has $0 in State Income Tax. Besides Property Taxes are deductible. Is this even a legitimate reason. Still concerned. Two Words for you: Homestead Exemption.
High electricity rates - Move to a neighborhood with Natural Gas then. Complaining about Electricity Rates. Right now, gas is at $4 a gallon or more. But what are you doing. You are putting $4 a Gallon gas in your car. Still concerned about energy. Turn your lights off, turn your ac off, and open your window.
Relatively high insurance rates - What type of Insurance Rates. Austin has some of the lowest crime in Texas.
35 traffic - Can't Argue this one.
Growing congestion - Can't Argue this one either
Limited direct flights from airport - If you travel alot, move to San Antonio. Austin isn't for everyone.
Long way to popular national parks, ocean, mountains - There are plenty of Parks around. Mountains. hmmmm, go to Fredericksburg. Ocean, you are like 3 hours away.
Industry focus primarily technology - Hate to say it, but our country is going to more technology based industry b/c that's where our world is heading.
Hey, I'm a Scorpio, don't talk to me about holding on to things!
Part of it is that Austin is still, in many areas, still semi-rural, small town, and a lot of folks love that ambiance and the fact that it's NOT a "big city". I understand your concerns - particularly for the wheel chair-bound person that you mention. I also understand the point of those who don't want their neighborhoods, their home, "citified" by outsiders.
Hmmf. I'm not talking about paving over the city. I thought my examples were fairly clear. None of those major areas I mentioned are anything close to being rural. These are business districts.
I hope you're not suggesting I'm "denigrating" Austin, by voicing my opinion about something I think it's lacking? I love my hometown and state of Ohio, but would never assume that it's always perfect just the way it is...forever. That's not realistic. I'm fascinated with town and city planning, and how design choices affect people's behavior and such, so I'm always looking and thinking about ways that cities can be more livable, especially as there populations grow(Austin). Or how to make them more interesting and vibrant as their populations decline(Cleveland).
I've spent more hours on this forum than I should, praising Austin's virtues. SCongress used to poke at me because he thought I was falling in love too fast I don't think I should have to live here for 40 years before I can voice an opinion or advocate change. Some things seem universal.
And I certainly don't walk around the city hollering this stuff at everybody I meet! That's what I like about this board - you have to wait until the other person is finished before you can say your piece I'm sure not looking to make enemies either!
Quote:
Originally Posted by love roses
Ack! I'm a Scorpio too
Lord, if I would've known BOTH of you were Scorpios...I would have shut the hell up about a thousand words back
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(I'm just kidding, btw) I actually agree with both of you. From the age of 5/6 to 16, I lived in Brazoria, a town that doesn't have sidewalks, except in the main old downtown part. I grew up walking on the roadside or in the grass getting my shoes dirty, and to this day, I believe that's what shoes are for 
(Unlike my sister who has a near hernia anytime any part of her body touches dirt). Then I was in Houston, where I walked everywhere almost, but there were sidewalks mainly. Skip to Denver and I was stunned at how great it is for pedestrians there. Wide bike lanes, wide sidewalks for the most part, an extensive trail system that spanned the entire area, including quite a few suburbs, and with a new short stretch, could actually reach to Boulder. You can literally ride your bike from Aurora to downtown or Cherry Creek or almost Lakewood. You couldn't quite ride to Highlands ranch or anything, but I bet you could ride your bike from Highlands Ranch to Castle Rock if you had to. And in some neighborhoods in Denver and also in the mountain towns, they painted lines across the roads where cars are required to stop if someone is crossing. No stop lights or blinking light crossings, just crosswalk lines painted on the road where pedestrians have the right of way. You get ticketed if you don't stop for them. This is where I'm with twange. I would LOVE for Austin and the suburbs to do this. I would love an extensive trail system that would come even from Hutto to Austin. What I loved about the trail system in Denver was that some was unimproved (unpaved), some was paved. There were benches to sit on if you got tired and needed to rest, and some parts of the trail had picnic tables and water fountains (not all parts, but some). Other things that were neat about it were that there are maps to tell you where you are, historical markers if you go past something of significance, the pretty scenery (some parts of the trails were along rivers or creeks) or would run through the outsides of towns but sort of near cafes, or diners so you could get something to eat or drink....I'm still crossing my fingers for that to happen here!
