the "yes means yes" law (attorney, best)

[cephalopede]

Originally Posted by Iaskwhy

Yes, unconsciousness. If I am really drunk and I kill someone, I am charged with murder, I am responsible for my actions. If I get really drunk and sleep with someone I shouldn't have, I am responsible for my actions. You cannot have it both ways. Either drunk people are responsible for their actions, or they're not.

You're drawing the wrong parallel.

We know drunk people shouldn't drive cars because their judgement and reaction times are impaired. They are not sober enough to be safe behind the wheel.

But that same person is sober enough to enter into an agreement with another human being, and there's no question there about their ability to agree? I doubt that.

And for the millionth time, I don't see what's so difficult about don't have sex with drunk people. If there is even a question as to a person's ability to consent to sex with you, why would you do it unless you don't care about consent?

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by cephalopede

There's unquestionably a point of drunkenness where you are both still awake but beyond the point of being able to knowingly consent to anything.

And this is ignoring the issues of another person continuously giving you drinks, or slipping something else into them.

Someone giving you drinks is not forcing you to drink them, people need to take responsibility for their choices.

Putting something in the drink is already illegal and should be.

[cephalopede]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

Someone giving you drinks is not forcing you to drink them, people need to take responsibility for their choices.

Putting something in the drink is already illegal and should be.

"Here, drink this, it's just soda"--which has a shot of rum in it.
"Here, drink this, it's just rum and Coke."--with two shots of 151.
"I don't feel well, I think I should stop." "What, but you only had one drink? Stop bitching and have a shot of tequila with me!"

Life's not as black and white as you want it to be.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by cephalopede

"Here, drink this, it's just soda"--which has a shot of rum in it.
"Here, drink this, it's just rum and Coke."--with two shots of 151.
"I don't feel well, I think I should stop." "What, but you only had one drink? Stop bitching and have a shot of tequila with me!"

Life's not as black and white as you want it to be.

You can taste the difference very easily. You are really starting to reach.

Why do you think people cannot make these basic decisions for themselves?

[Rakin]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

How does the definition of rape change depending on if someone is enrolled in school?

What your saying is stay away from College kids if you want sex. That makes sense.

How does the law apply if they are out for the summer ?

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by Rakin

What your saying is stay away from College kids if you want sex. That makes sense.

How does the law apply if they are out for the summer ?

No one knows.

So many holes in this thing.


It is just feel good legislation that doesn't actually do anything, just add legal gray area to prosecute men under the banner of "doing something"

[Iaskwhy]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Really? Then how do we explain the procreative success of most other animal species over the ages - where we observe very clearly the females controlling the mating processes of timing and acceptance. As aggressive as horny male dogs are, you never see a female dog raped. Goes for elephants and tigers too.

Methinks someone needs to spend more time at the zoo before he writes about life.

I am talking specifically about humans. In nearly all mammal species the male controls the mating process as sexual dimorphism favors the males. In cases where sexual dimorphism favors the female then you see the opposite. Forced sex and sexual coercion is found throughout the animal kingdom. Rape is pretty much a term that applies only to modern humans as in non human animals it is just called sex. Sexual coercion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the case of dogs, elephants and tigers it isn't nearly as simple as you make it out to be. You have to look at whether the animal has an estrus cycle or not. Males have no sexual desire toward a female unless she in estrus then the males go crazy after her. Look at chimpanzees and dolphins, both are highly intelligent and neither have estrus cycles and "rape" is common in both.

[Iaskwhy]

Originally Posted by cephalopede

And for the millionth time, I don't see what's so difficult about don't have sex with drunk people. If there is even a question as to a person's ability to consent to sex with you, why would you do it unless you don't care about consent?

I'm not really sure if you noticed this, but there are these places called bars, where people go to have some drinks to lower their social anxieties before trying to court the opposite sex. People use alcohol as a social lubricant. As long as alcohol is available and sex outside of marriage is acceptable then people will have sex when drinking.

[Iaskwhy]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

Thank you for so eloquently presenting your side's (macabre) case. Spot on! The prosecution can now rest.

Just because you won't accept biological fact doesn't make it untrue. Show me proof that what I said is factually incorrect from scientific sources.

[Sydney123]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

Someone giving you drinks is not forcing you to drink them, people need to take responsibility for their choices.

Putting something in the drink is already illegal and should be.

If we follow your logic about taking responsibility for our choices and we go and have sex with someone who is deemed too incapacitated to give consent by law and you "choose" to have sex with that person anyway, and it comes back to bite you in the butt... Shouldn't you then be and take responsibility for your actions?
Nobody forced you after all.