Why Do So Many More Canadians Move To America Than Americans Move To Canada? (high school, tax)
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I took fusion's posts to be more about the unsung heros of this country (although it would apply to any other country as well). We recognise certain actions as being 'unselfish' and therefore outside of normal behaviour and honour those actions in certain areas, with medals. I took fusion's post to be about the many here or elsewhere, who labour every day, not having their work recognised, but which nonetheless, keep this country's toilets flushing, and cars running
And if someone - a Canadian, for the purposes of this thread - can get a higher paying job in another country, but turns it down because he or she knows his own country is in need of his skills, then yes, I would call that a hero.
I don't remember which post it was, or the poster that made the point about how often western countries end up poaching the best and brightest from the countries that are most in need of guidance, and while Canada does not fall into that category of desperate need, the point is still valid.
However, I will say that life is what happens when you are making other plans and it does happen that someone leaves with no intention of returning, and circumstances later in life are such that you return and the knowledge that you accumulated while elsewhere, is something you can give to your country. There would be nothing new to give, if no one ever went away and experienced life elsewhere.
And even if some people never return, that in and of itself doesn't mean that they are not contributing to their country because wherever you go, you are an ambassador for your country and it is possible to benefit your home country in myriad ways, even while never returning to it, and even if that isn't your specific intention.
It is a position and to be honest, for those that don't feel a sense of disloyality or sense of loss that is their entitlement in this life and I totally agree there is no moral imperative..
I'm not trying to nitpick, but I'd like to respond to this. You say you respect individual choice, but then you insert the term "disloyalty" into the same sentence. You might not have meant anything by that, but then again, maybe you did, idk.
It’s unclear to me why a Canadian who emigrates to another country would/should feel a sense of “disloyalty” any more than does an IMMIGRANT to Canada. Does “loyal” membership to Canada demand sole proprietorship of the individual?
Perhaps we need to define "loyalty." That's another highly subjective concept. The immigrant experience - no matter where one emigrates to, or from where one immigrates - is not binary. It's not black-and-white; it never is. It's considerably more complex and nuanced than most North Americans think and certainly more than how most Hollywood movies portray. Like other immigrants, Canadian émigrés can love both their adopted countries AND Canada. And because no place is perfect, they can also identify problems in both countries, as well. It's true!
I'm not sure why you think ex-pat Canadians don’t feel any "loyalty" to Canada (IF that is what you think). I, for one, haven't callously tossed away the place of my upbringing and young adult years. How could I? Why would I? That's simply not how it works for ANY immigrant. Canada is an intrinsic, inalienable part of me, as one’s home country is for anyone.
My own parents still miss aspects of the "old country" after almost 50 happy years in Canada. Though I don't think I'd return to Canada full-time, that doesn't mean I don't feel a profound fondness for Canada and my heritage, because I do. If I may say so, it would be rather cheeky for anyone to suggest otherwise of any ex-pat Canadian.
Last edited by newdixiegirl; 10-04-2014 at 02:27 PM..
I don't remember which post it was, or the poster that made the point about how often western countries end up poaching the best and brightest from the countries that are most in need of guidance, and while Canada does not fall into that category of desperate need, the point is still valid.
However, I will say that life is what happens when you are making other plans and it does happen that someone leaves with no intention of returning, and circumstances later in life are such that you return and the knowledge that you accumulated while elsewhere, is something you can give to your country. There would be nothing new to give, if no one ever went away and experienced life elsewhere.
And even if some people never return, that in and of itself doesn't mean that they are not contributing to their country because wherever you go, you are an ambassador for your country and it is possible to benefit your home country in myriad ways, even while never returning to it, and even if that isn't your specific intention.
Yes!
I said in another post that Canadians who go to other countries often feel they are helping to give Canada to the world, so to speak (or as fusion suggests, we are acting as ambassadors of Canada). As a Canadian in my adopted country, I honestly do feel this way.
The positive impacts of the many cultures that have made Canada and the US the countries they are today would not have been possible without people being willing to go beyond their countries' boundaries. And, quite honestly, the larger the diaspora, the greater the positive impact elsewhere.
In the 21st century, people are now - and will increasingly become - global citizens.
I definitely do not believe that it is misguided to have values, I just think it is misguided to align yourself with a country so tightly that it controls how you choose to live your life. I love my country of birth, but I am not naive enough to think the people in charge have my best interests at heart. So at the end of the day I live for myself and my family, not my country. You may feel different and that is totally acceptable.
As far as being happy is concerned, this is not about happiness as that can be achieved in many ways. Some people are perfectly content to stay in the same city they are born in and live there for the rest of their lives. Others even thinking of not experiencing something different would drive them absolutely crazy. I just think that the person who leaves can be equally as concerned and have the best interests of their home country in mind as the person who chooses to stay. You can help from afar believe it or not.
Essentially we are just different and as you said that is totally acceptable. I think there is room for both types of individuals and fortunately for Canada, those born and bred here are more like I am than not, even if they are in the closet about it. We are speaking about Canada here so It isn't exactly an oppressive place so allowing it to be a part of what 'controls' how I choose to live isn't exactly a bad compromise. It is a land of great opportunity across the spectrum. I do think there is absolutely a benefit to any nation to have individuals who are further to the right of the spectrum in terms of their connection to home.. I wouldn't equate myself to Lincoln, but my values are probably more closely aligned with his than say yourself or someone with the title of movingwiththewind. The U.S would not exist today in big part if it weren't for those like Lincoln. The Emancipation Proclamation would have been delayed decades if he had taken up a higher profile legal post in London and decided to stay there.
Putting aside pride of country and home, as far as personal and even professional development even if there some fields where you have a more difficult time excelling than in other countries, there are plenty of options in terms of creating your own start up with the goal of competing with the best and that can be done right here in many instances.
I'm not trying to nitpick, but I'd like to respond to this. You say you respect individual choice, but then you insert the term "disloyalty" into the same sentence. You might not have meant anything by that, but then again, maybe you did, idk.
It’s unclear to me why a Canadian who emigrates to another country would/should feel a sense of “disloyalty” any more than does an IMMIGRANT to Canada. Does “loyal” membership to Canada demand sole proprietorship of the individual?
Perhaps we need to define "loyalty." That's another highly subjective concept. The immigrant experience - no matter where one emigrates to, or from where one immigrates - is not binary. It's not black-and-white; it never is. It's considerably more complex and nuanced than most North Americans think and certainly more than how most Hollywood movies portray. Like other immigrants, Canadian émigrés can love both their adopted countries AND Canada. And because no place is perfect, they can also identify problems in both countries, as well. It's true!
I'm not sure why you think ex-pat Canadians don’t feel any "loyalty" to Canada (IF that is what you think). I, for one, haven't callously tossed away the place of my upbringing and young adult years. How could I? Why would I? That's simply not how it works for ANY immigrant. Canada is an intrinsic, inalienable part of me, as one’s home country is for anyone.
My own parents still miss aspects of the "old country" after almost 50 happy years in Canada. Though I don't think I'd return to Canada full-time, that doesn't mean I don't feel a profound fondness for Canada and my heritage, because I do. If I may say so, it would be rather cheeky for anyone to suggest otherwise of any ex-pat Canadian.
Most immigrants come to Canada because they are freeing themselves from gross lack of opportunity and from places whereby certain fundamental rights and freedoms are denied to them. How can I fault those who would leave under such circumstances. For example, I as a gay man would not exactly feel at home in Venezuela or China and would leave if I had the chance because of denied rights and freedoms.
Canada is a nation that offers so much for its citizenry that yes, I do think a certain sense of loyalty towards it is deserving. In light of all that, for those who leave and don't feel that they have any sense of disloyalty to the place - well that is their right... for me it just wouldn't sit well with me to leave Canada in my prime years to support another nation with my hard work when I can do so right here for a nation that has done so much for me. Does this mean it can sit well with others? Clearly that is the case and it is ok but by and large less than optimal in the long term if a large percentage were like this. How this can be denied is fundamentally flawed logic if you ask me.
And if someone - a Canadian, for the purposes of this thread - can get a higher paying job in another country, but turns it down because he or she knows his own country is in need of his skills, then yes, I would call that a hero.
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Why Thank you!
I have received a professional designation in the last year that may well indeed mean that I could find a better and higher paying job somewhere else.. I have actually been approached by a colleague from a company in Dubai about this..
So I take the job there and leave my mom and dad for one... Not to mention I'm in a same-sex marriage so don't think it would be exactly a kosher choice for my partner.. What does the UAE represent for people like us and really - what kind of values does that nation represent as a whole.. So ultimately my choice is Canada and for me it is a great and deserving choice and deserves all the loyal heroes it can get
I have received a professional designation in the last year that may well indeed mean that I could find a better and higher paying job somewhere else.. I have actually been approached by a colleague from a company in Dubai about this..
So I take the job there and leave my mom and dad for one... Not to mention I'm in a same-sex marriage so don't think it would be exactly a kosher choice for my partner.. What does the UAE represent for people like us and really - what kind of values does that nation represent as a whole.. So ultimately my choice is Canada and for me it is a great and deserving choice and deserves all the loyal heroes it can get
Screw patriotism and my relationship i'd be in Dubai the next day, gotta chase the paper.
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