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honestly, if it were me, i don't want to live to 100 at all costs. i'm not that type. my sister on the other hand does want to live to be 100. and she wants to do whatever she can to get my parents to be 100 as well. i'm more of the "let them live as they want and if it cuts off 5 years from their life so be it." they are already in their 80's which to me is way long enough to live. i def do not want to live that old if i'm not happy!
anyways, mostly my mom attends the activities. my dad usually does not. there's only a couple of other men in the place. mostly it's all women, as i guess are typical of ALFs. when i visited them i saw a LOT of people in their 90's. i think my parents are a bit too healthy to be in an ALF (all their friends still live independently) but not able to live on their own. a live in aide would have been best but they were so opposed to the idea so here we are.
I'd have let her and if I didn't want to help her then I just wouldn't. You can easily hire a person to check on her a few times a week. In home rehab is usually covered by medicare. Let her die there. That's what she wants. Her best interests are what she wants. Not her safety, not her health. She's old, old people die. She's not going to recover and become 40 soon. Why can't people just let nature take it's course?
I get that people don't want to be burdened taking care of their old parents so just don't. Let them try til they die. That's what most of them want. It's what I would want. Why let them suffer out the rest of their days?
I hope I fall on the floor and can't get up. I can remember all the good times while I lie there dying on my own floor. Way better than being saved and put in the pen to slowly suffer for years.
You're assuming it ends there, with death. I've heard too many stories of people not dying, but "surviving" as shells of their former selves. One 49 year old guy fell in his apartment, hit his head, suffered brain damaged and was reduced to living as a paralyzed, drooling person who couldn't speak and barely responded to anyone around him.
And a family friend who is 90 and has fallen three times in 2017 once again fell in her home alone and is suffering a lot of cognitive decline as a result.
honestly, if it were me, i don't want to live to 100 at all costs. i'm not that type. my sister on the other hand does want to live to be 100. and she wants to do whatever she can to get my parents to be 100 as well. i'm more of the "let them live as they want and if it cuts off 5 years from their life so be it." they are already in their 80's which to me is way long enough to live. i def do not want to live that old if i'm not happy!
anyways, mostly my mom attends the activities. my dad usually does not. there's only a couple of other men in the place. mostly it's all women, as i guess are typical of ALFs. when i visited them i saw a LOT of people in their 90's. i think my parents are a bit too healthy to be in an ALF (all their friends still live independently) but not able to live on their own. a live in aide would have been best but they were so opposed to the idea so here we are.
That's a good point. Have you pointed this out to them, now that they're wanting to leave the ALF? This is what they got, by turning down the offer of a live-in aide. Perhaps they'd be willing to reconsider, if it meant being able to move back home. And would a 24-hr. aide be necessary? Or maybe just a couple of daytime shifts, leaving at night, when the two are tucked in and nodding off? I'm just thinking, maybe one of their objections was lack of privacy. Maybe there would be a way to work scheduling, so they have their home to themselves for a few hours a day. IDK their situation fully; I'm just thinking out loud.
I have to say I agree with Tokinouta as well, for myself.
I saw my MIL's decline and eventual death and how secretive she became just to preserve some of her self and get through each day. I didn't understand it at first. I didn't get why she would let her p/t in-home caregivers go early every day. It was so she could finally have her house all to herself.
Then she would make a ritual of going to bed at 8 pm, but that was only so that everyone would leave and again, she'd have her house all to herself. She often got up and roamed at night. A few times she fell.
That could so easily be me.
She opposed the move to a care home but ultimately she had no choice. I don't blame her caregiver, who was only doing what she thought best -- BUT she was also doing that which would minimize her own guilt feelings. Again, understandable, but no one need feel any guilt about me.
I will NOT spend the last six months of my life in a strange place, removed from everything I love without my consent, basically warehoused, just as unable to act as the potted orchid on my (her) dresser.
Unfortunately in the OP's situation (if I've understood correctly) this is a moot point. They have already been moved to the ALF....there's no home to go back to. The primary decision was made.
I completely understand why some people would rather "die on the floor" instead of linger someplace "safer". But, those are conversations that must take place before an ALF move, not after.
honestly, if it were me, i don't want to live to 100 at all costs. i'm not that type. my sister on the other hand does want to live to be 100. and she wants to do whatever she can to get my parents to be 100 as well. i'm more of the "let them live as they want and if it cuts off 5 years from their life so be it." they are already in their 80's which to me is way long enough to live. i def do not want to live that old if i'm not happy!
anyways, mostly my mom attends the activities. my dad usually does not. there's only a couple of other men in the place. mostly it's all women, as i guess are typical of ALFs. when i visited them i saw a LOT of people in their 90's. i think my parents are a bit too healthy to be in an ALF (all their friends still live independently) but not able to live on their own. a live in aide would have been best but they were so opposed to the idea so here we are.
There you have the solution if they want to reconsider at this point.
The residents with the better mental faculties and energy levels appear to form cliques and always dine together, play cards together, read magazines, and converse.
Why is it? Keep them safe from what? Death? Injury? You aren't keeping them safe from being miserable.
I understand that parents as they age take some care but there are better ways to do this so they keep their wits. Sending any old person to an new environment isn't good for them. They need the comfort of their old life especially if they're losing some facilities. It's scary, sad and confusing to them. It's not comforting them so I think you should just deal with your guilt. See a counselor. Get over it. Why would it be better to lift your guilt and send them off and to a counselor to deal with it? They're the ones who will suffer the most being moved to a new place at that age.
There's Uber, Lyft for rides or senior buses. There's amazon pantry, Schwan's, most grocery store deliver for food. There's nurse check ins through social security, in home rehab, etc. Then there is the kid who doesn't mind stopping by mom and dad's house a few times a month with meds, or those can be set up to be delivered as well.
There's amazon Alexa's or Google bot to remind them to take meds. Unplug the stove and let them use a microwave, or better yet just let them die by an accident. Ask them what THEY want. Do YOU want to die living at home from forgetting your meds or falling? Or do you want assisted living? Let them at least make the choice of how they want to go out of here.
Do your best to set things up for them and forget about the guilt. Gosh, kids don't have to have the guilt. If my mom was worried about me because I got into a car accident or forgot to take a pill and had me committed I'd freak out too. Just let life take it's course. If they want to stay let them, if they want to go let them. That should take care of your guilt, and if it doesn't you can seek counseling for it.
There are tons of people who are a danger to themselves and society that you could never legally move into the home of your choosing. I don't know why we do it to old people. I have a feeling it's the young people who just need a break but there are better ways to take that break. One way is to not take it all on. I think certain people have the personality to take on more than they can handle, they get overwhelmed and make hasty decisions. My advice is to slow down, and not take anything on you don't want to. It's fine. Just let it be.
Old proof their house as best you can. Have someone check in on them and forget about it. Know that you at least gave them freedom in their old age. Most people would want that.
I had this exact conversation with my siblings today. My mother is 91, and fell a month ago, fracturing her back. She's been in a rehab center(ie: nursing home) since then, and is absolutely miserable. She's lost over 20lbs because she doesn't like the food. In fairness to the place, they have been very responsive to our concerns, and have offered her pretty much an open menu, but she won't eat. I told my siblings today, enough. Let's bring her home, and pay for round the clock nursing. She may not live much longer, but I'd rather she die happy, than miserable.
That's a good point. Have you pointed this out to them, now that they're wanting to leave the ALF? This is what they got, by turning down the offer of a live-in aide.
My sister and I tried this reasoning with my dad as well; just help at home, not live in, so he could stay there. It made total sense to US, but not to him. I'm sure he was feeling attacked on all sides at the time. He was in and out of the hospital, knew that he was less and less able to control his own affairs, was being pushed into change he refused to face. I'm sure he was so focused on defending or justifying himself he wasn't viewing any of these suggestions as helpful, but as loss of control. Unfortunately he did lose his independence, ironically because he WAS so stubbornly independent!
We had toured at least 14 ALFs over several months and he refused them all. Finally one was grudgingly accepted but I realize now it was just to get us off his back. He lasted 2 weeks before locking his door, refusing meds, wouldn't go to meals, or admitting the nurse to check a wound dressing. The facility called the EMTs to break in, found him dehydrated in a room heated to 90+ F, and feverish from the wound infection. Ended up hospitalized again and this time his MD made the determination that he could no longer live independently. This time I think he knew he was out of options.
We had found a small senior residence for him to visit some time earlier (in a single family home in a neighborhood with about 4 clients and live in staff) but he flatly rejected sharing living space with anyone else. This time he agreed to a tour. He would have his own room and bath and use his own furniture and belongings. The house was spacious with a large backyard patio and garden. It didn't have an institutional feel at all. I loved the place right off, and the director even more. She had him pegged almost immediately and knew how to deal with his surly selfish paranoid attitude. She was respectful and pleasant, but immovable. Eventually he gave the staff some grudging respect though he ignored the other residents. I kept waiting for the horrible phone call saying he could no longer stay there due to his behavior but it never happened. He died during a nap in his own bed, his own room about 18 months later.
Last edited by Parnassia; 09-04-2017 at 03:03 PM..
I will address all I can but like I stated this is the best advice I can give and it's in relation to how I feel about my own aging care.
First of all the O.P.'s parents aren't feeble. There are many, many ways to allow people at their capacity to live at home. Not because I protest but finances are and will change how senior care pans out in the future and I'm glad! 8 Predictions about the Future of Assisted Living
If someone doesn't die in home and is indeed in need of medical care they will get it. They'll have a hospital stay, rehab and either be sent home with or without home care. It in no way means they are destined to the nursing home. That's ridiculous. I'm sure they'd rather die a shell at home then in a home. But, at that point, if they aren't themselves but truly a shell I imagine they will no longer have any wishes. If you don't pull the plug at the hospital it won't matter where the shell is stored and will no longer be an issue will it.
Nobody said it was easy. It's not about the "right" thing to do either. It's about letting older people have their dignity. It's really all they have left.
Dealing with dementia is difficult. But they still have a ways to go until they can no longer function at all and are out of their minds or a "shell." By that time they'll be dead within a few weeks or maybe a few months. They would be considered actively ill, not able to live and terminal. A nursing home will only facilitate this sooner than later with all the drugs they'll pump into them to keep them quiet and "safe." It won't matter at that point. They won't be craving independence at that point. They'll be dying. Too bad that fall they had last year didn't do the job, but sometimes it does not. I'm always puzzled why they give flu and pneumonia shots to people in the last stages of Alzheimers. Trust me they'd rather be taken earlier by the flu. It's all about the $.
I'm talking about those older people who still have life left. Can still eat, sleep and keep relatively clean. They can and do recover from strokes, heart attacks, blood pressure issues, and accidents at home with in home visits and rehab. It's not a jail sentence. If that's what they want then why not? They might forget things, might annoy you more but that's not that big of a deal. If you can't handle your parents there are services that allow them to live in home. We will start tolerating this more because we can't afford to put people in homes anymore so in light of that we better get use to it.
Home assistance is available and they don't make recommendations for assisted living places they just increase visits. Why would they? They may ask you to check on them more often but if you can't then tell them to do it. They'll increase a visit. They'll even come give them a shower. They'll send a nurse or doctor to the home.
Anyway, this is only my advice and my opinion on the matter. It's not really up for debate. You'll do what you feel is best but that doesn't mean everyone will agree with you. I just don't happen to agree that ALC and Nursing homes are the way to go and like I said, I would rather die than do that when I'm older.
moving back home is not an option. i've already presented two different ALFs to my parents, which may fit my parents needs better but they are rejecting those options. maybe it just takes more adjustment period ...
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