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I have never understood why people are so opposed to living in an ALF or nursing home. What's the big deal? You would rather be in your home, semi lucid with memory issues, tumble down the stairs and slowly die on the floor? Just so you can say you did it your way?
If you're old and and going to die, why not do it in a controlled environment? What's the big deal about being in your old house? That's just a building like any other building.
Because in a "controlled environment" they won't LET you die. Fall down? They'll get you up and send you to the ER to be checked out and when you return, you're labeled a Fall Risk and won't be allowed up without a walker, or an escort. Get sick? Off you go to the hospital and when they get you better, back you go to the walker/wheelchair/escort scene. With more meds. But not to worry, the nurse will be in to give them to you at the appointed time(s). Cry and ask to go home and now you're referred to psych. With another pill.
I need to use the toilet but since I'm a Fall Risk I have to wait for someone to take me. Well, I can't wait, dammit. I need to go now. I don't understand why everyone assumes Old People fall down a lot. I've only fallen twice in the last 22 years. Once was on the stairs when my shoe came off and I bumped down six steps. My stairway has a right-angle turn at the landing. Up 7, turn, up 9. I can even rest on the landing if it's too much for me to continue but that hasn't happened yet. The other time I fell because I left my shoes in the middle of the floor and tripped. Fell on soft carpet and only hurt my dignity. Lesson learned - put shoes under sofa.
I'm going to be 82 in a month. I live in my own 6 room home. I'm responsible for everything except mowing the lawn and shoveling snow. I've got all my wits (I think) and I have my own little tricks to remind me to take my meds. I rarely miss a dose. I keep my phone in my pocket and I know how to dial 9-1-1
One of my kids wants me to come and live there. It's only about 7 miles from my own house. But I don't want to go. I like it here. I can do what I please and if I don't please, I don't do. I can play my TV all day and night (it helps to block out the tinnitus) They mean well but living with two teens and a 2 y.o. is not my cuppa. I've done that already, no need to do it again. I love them to pieces but I can go home when I've had enough.
No, charly, that old house is MY old house. It's not like any other building. And it is a Big Deal. If I'm dead, I can't tell anyone I "did it my way" now can I?
I don't want confinement because "it's for your own good, Mom" just to assuage the kids' guilt. If the only person I'm a danger to is myself, what's wrong with that?
ETA: In the case of dementia, or a totally disabling cerebral accident, of course one cannot continue to live alone. And for that situation, people do what needs to be done. For those who decide that this is what the elderly relative requires, I have no quarrel.
I am simply stating here that in my current circumstances, this is what I want. To get up and have my coffee and read the news and decide if I feel like doing anything more than reading or working on the jigsaw puzzle or get back to crocheting that afghan that has been sitting since February. To go to the store or the post office or the park. To shoo the friggin' birds off my deck! To do the laundry. To cook supper or get take-out. Not all in the same day. As long as can choose for myself.
Last edited by theatergypsy; 09-05-2017 at 02:16 PM..
I'm going to be 82 in a month. I live in my own 6 room home. I'm responsible for everything except mowing the lawn and shoveling snow. I've got all my wits (I think) and I have my own little tricks to remind me to take my meds. I rarely miss a dose. I keep my phone in my pocket and I know how to dial 9-1-1
It sounds like you're doing great! Keep on keepin' on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theatergypsy
One of my kids wants me to come and live there. It's only about 7 miles from my own house. But I don't want to go. I like it here. I can do what I please and if I don't please, I don't do. I can play my TV all day and night (it helps to block out the tinnitus)
What is the reason they want you to live with them? Is there a reason they think you can't live alone? Are you saying things that make them THINK you can't live alone? If you are complaining a lot about how hard things are for you at home, maybe they think you need help. I'm not saying that to blame YOU for anything -- it's just that sometimes elderly parents' "venting" about the difficulties of life telegraphs as "I can't do this alone."
Quote:
Originally Posted by theatergypsy
I don't want confinement because "it's for your own good, Mom" just to assuage the kids' guilt. If the only person I'm a danger to is myself, what's wrong with that?
Why would guilt be involved? It sounds like you aren't asking for their help so there wouldn't be reason for them to feel guilty.
I guess you could look at it this way: You have very caring kids. You are lucky you have kids asking you to move in. My father's son hasn't called him to say hello in years. Lots of 80-year olds are very lonely and have no one who cares.
Just being honest here, please regard what I say as a personal opinion.
I personally would rather not go to assisted living.
Why should I have lied? I'd rather die of starvation. It's not like you can't end up dying of starvation in the nursing home and yes it's horrible. DYING is horrible, losing your husband is horrible, getting old isn't always pleasant . Both my grandparents did just that. It's not like abuse doesn't happen in a ALF or Nursing home. There is danger everywhere and you can die of starvation or fall in either place. My grandfather fell often in the nursing home and one time waited all night on the floor til they did a room check. Putting them in assisted living just gives you a break. That is why I suggested other ways to help them at home. I wouldn't use exhaustion as an excuse to limit their choices. That's not a reason for me. I just wouldn't take on more than I can handle, there is no reason to do that. Seniors do not have to go to nursing homes to get assistance. That's simply not true.
Slap happy? Seriously? What situations don't you think I'm aware of? You've made it perfectly clear with your stories how it went down. I just don't agree with your reasoning. I don't think you have to move your parent or parents into ALF for help. There are many other ways and I've listed them and left a link. If life has stripped you of your health and your spouse then maybe you should at least allow a few choices. It's not like getting old is a crime. We all get there someday.
There's options for those who are interested in them. https://www.care.com/c/stories/5437/...ing-home-care/
Set yourself up with services before you actually need them. Learn to call a Lyft, learn to order groceries, make friends with your neighbors. Join church groups. Do these things in preparation for staying home as you age and keeping your independence.
Another thing people might not know is that ALF's don't help when the parent needs one on one care. You'll still have to pay for one on one services on top of the rent for the ALF. Make sure you check what it is they cover. Often times an ALF will accept a patient that really needs one on one care only to let you know later. That will be a separate cost.
As I've stated up thread these would be my wishes. Some older people like community homes, especially if they don't suffer from dementia and don't need familiar settings. They can eventually really like it. One size does not fit all. This is only my advice, my wishes as I get older and it doesn't apply to everyone. I've stated that multiple times.
It's VERY clear you've never been in this situation with a family member. Telling someone not to do something just doesn't work. I remember when my husband's grandfather needed to give up driving. He REALLY needed to give it up before he killed someone. He fought everyone tooth and nail. He couldn't drive above 25, couldn't stay on the right side of the road, couldn't use directionals, couldn't start the car with his right hand because of numerous strokes. He finally lost his license along with parts of his brain and body when he had another severe stroke. This was no picnic for anyone.
If killed your spouse or child because he never should have been behind the wheel, you'd have an entirely different tune! He needed care. He was a hazard to himself and others! Losing one's independence sucks. It really does, but it's a fact of life. Safety isn't just about you. It's about others who may cross your path as well.
Setting yourself up with services? Oh yeah you've NEVER been through this. Please teach my grandmother how to use a smartphone and Lyft! She can't even use her cable remote!! Time Warner goes to her apartment about once a month to reprogram her box because she hits buttons and has no idea what she's doing. My brother has literally covered her entire remote with tape. She can only use the volume up and down, channel up and down, and power button. She still somehow reprograms the cable box! The techs are always amazed at what she does.
Also Uber and Lyft are NOT available all over the country. Grocery delivery is not a thing in many areas either. Both of these are big city things. Most people don't live in a big city with these services. Amazon pantry? Can't use a remote so forget the internet!
Join church groups? I don't know many people who are religious! Most of the ones I know who are religious are the we go on Christmas and Easter kind of religious. Religion is not a big thing everywhere.
So what happens when a person ends up with dementia? Physically can't use the toilet and wears diapers? Medicare and Medicaid are VERY restrictive of what they will pay for. Getting someone to check in on you? Who do you get to check in on someone? Someone in diapers doesn't need to be checked in on. They need someone with them usually around the clock. That's extremely expensive and hard to find decent people to do it.
I'm going to be 82 in a month. I live in my own 6 room home. I'm responsible for everything except mowing the lawn and shoveling snow. I've got all my wits (I think) and I have my own little tricks to remind me to take my meds. I rarely miss a dose. I keep my phone in my pocket and I know how to dial 9-1-1
One of my kids wants me to come and live there. It's only about 7 miles from my own house. But I don't want to go. I like it here. I can do what I please and if I don't please, I don't do. I can play my TV all day and night (it helps to block out the tinnitus) They mean well but living with two teens and a 2 y.o. is not my cuppa. I've done that already, no need to do it again. I love them to pieces but I can go home when I've had enough.
No, charly, that old house is MY old house. It's not like any other building. And it is a Big Deal. If I'm dead, I can't tell anyone I "did it my way" now can I?
I don't want confinement because "it's for your own good, Mom" just to assuage the kids' guilt. If the only person I'm a danger to is myself, what's wrong with that?
ETA: In the case of dementia, or a totally disabling cerebral accident, of course one cannot continue to live alone. And for that situation, people do what needs to be done. For those who decide that this is what the elderly relative requires, I have no quarrel.
I am simply stating here that in my current circumstances, this is what I want. To get up and have my coffee and read the news and decide if I feel like doing anything more than reading or working on the jigsaw puzzle or get back to crocheting that afghan that has been sitting since February. To go to the store or the post office or the park. To shoo the friggin' birds off my deck! To do the laundry. To cook supper or get take-out. Not all in the same day. As long as can choose for myself.
Bravo, ma'am. I think in your case, you have every right to do as you please. You are only 7 miles away from the nearest relative and still have your wits about you.
Not so for my FIL who is 82 and lives an hour 1/2 out in the boonies, has leukemia and must be driven an hour one way to chemo every day, and this will not change for the rest of his life. My husband lives with him in order to make that happen, because his father refuses to come live with us. I had a total hysterectomy last Wednesday and he was not able to be there because of his father. I had to ask our kids to be there instead and that is the last thing I ever wanted, is to be a burden on my children.
Bravo, ma'am. I think in your case, you have every right to do as you please. You are only 7 miles away from the nearest relative and still have your wits about you.
Yes, I can't say how much I admire theatergypsy. I hope I get the chance to be just like her.
Quote:
I had a total hysterectomy last Wednesday and he was not able to be there because of his father. I had to ask our kids to be there instead and that is the last thing I ever wanted, is to be a burden on my children.
Here's hoping you're resting and healing comes quickly.
Because in a "controlled environment" they won't LET you die. Fall down? They'll get you up and send you to the ER to be checked out and when you return, you're labeled a Fall Risk and won't be allowed up without a walker, or an escort. Get sick? Off you go to the hospital and when they get you better, back you go to the walker/wheelchair/escort scene. With more meds. But not to worry, the nurse will be in to give them to you at the appointed time(s). Cry and ask to go home and now you're referred to psych. With another pill.
I need to use the toilet but since I'm a Fall Risk I have to wait for someone to take me. Well, I can't wait, dammit. I need to go now. I don't understand why everyone assumes Old People fall down a lot. I've only fallen twice in the last 22 years. Once was on the stairs when my shoe came off and I bumped down six steps. My stairway has a right-angle turn at the landing. Up 7, turn, up 9. I can even rest on the landing if it's too much for me to continue but that hasn't happened yet. The other time I fell because I left my shoes in the middle of the floor and tripped. Fell on soft carpet and only hurt my dignity. Lesson learned - put shoes under sofa.
I'm going to be 82 in a month. I live in my own 6 room home. I'm responsible for everything except mowing the lawn and shoveling snow. I've got all my wits (I think) and I have my own little tricks to remind me to take my meds. I rarely miss a dose. I keep my phone in my pocket and I know how to dial 9-1-1
One of my kids wants me to come and live there. It's only about 7 miles from my own house. But I don't want to go. I like it here. I can do what I please and if I don't please, I don't do. I can play my TV all day and night (it helps to block out the tinnitus) They mean well but living with two teens and a 2 y.o. is not my cuppa. I've done that already, no need to do it again. I love them to pieces but I can go home when I've had enough.
No, charly, that old house is MY old house. It's not like any other building. And it is a Big Deal. If I'm dead, I can't tell anyone I "did it my way" now can I?
I don't want confinement because "it's for your own good, Mom" just to assuage the kids' guilt. If the only person I'm a danger to is myself, what's wrong with that?
ETA: In the case of dementia, or a totally disabling cerebral accident, of course one cannot continue to live alone. And for that situation, people do what needs to be done. For those who decide that this is what the elderly relative requires, I have no quarrel.
I am simply stating here that in my current circumstances, this is what I want. To get up and have my coffee and read the news and decide if I feel like doing anything more than reading or working on the jigsaw puzzle or get back to crocheting that afghan that has been sitting since February. To go to the store or the post office or the park. To shoo the friggin' birds off my deck! To do the laundry. To cook supper or get take-out. Not all in the same day. As long as can choose for myself.
I totally get what you're saying and you are completely within your right to feel and behave as you do. I have a 90 year old aunt who lives independently and still drives, still cooks, still goes to church on her own - she's mobile and alert and she even does things like get online and order stuff, etc. She's fantastic! She and my cousin just came to visit me a couple of weeks ago and I just got the sweetest thank you card from her. Some people can live independently and SHOULD if that's what they want to do and they are not expecting other people to continue some sort of facade of "independent living" when they are actually not at all independent and in fact a danger to themselves or others.
Or just themselves. Like my mom (who does have some cognitive issues which you touched on in general so I'm not arguing with you). Say that my mom had no cognitive issues - she just didn't like to wear her fall sensor and she just refused to carry a phone around with her (that sounds about like her three years ago). She doesn't believe she could fall. In fact, she DID fall - and laid there for hours till my dad got up (he was hard of hearing and couldn't hear her calling for him and she fell in the middle of the night). She broke her hip. But that wasn't OK with her. She didn't WANT to lay there for hours on a cold tile floor with a broken hip.
So if she'd been living alone, she would have needed to implement some additional safety measures - like you've done. Carry a phone around with her, maybe wear a fall alarm, something like that. My issue comes in with people who refuse to take common sense measures but then expect family to jump through hoops with them when their lack of planning and foresight balloons into an emergency.
It sounds like you're doing great! Keep on keepin' on.
What is the reason they want you to live with them? Is there a reason they think you can't live alone? Are you saying things that make them THINK you can't live alone? If you are complaining a lot about how hard things are for you at home, maybe they think you need help. I'm not saying that to blame YOU for anything -- it's just that sometimes elderly parents' "venting" about the difficulties of life telegraphs as "I can't do this alone."
No, I haven't been "venting" about the difficulties of life. They are well aware of what I can and cannot do. Maybe they just like me.
Why would guilt be involved? It sounds like you aren't asking for their help so there wouldn't be reason for them to feel guilty.
Because in many cases, I have heard people talk about how if something happened to their loved one, "I'd feel guilty as hell"
I guess you could look at it this way: You have very caring kids. You are lucky you have kids asking you to move in. My father's son hasn't called him to say hello in years. Lots of 80-year olds are very lonely and have no one who cares.
Quote:
Originally Posted by convextech
Bravo, ma'am. I think in your case, you have every right to do as you please. You are only 7 miles away from the nearest relative and still have your wits about you.
Not so for my FIL who is 82 and lives an hour 1/2 out in the boonies, has leukemia and must be driven an hour one way to chemo every day, and this will not change for the rest of his life. My husband lives with him in order to make that happen, because his father refuses to come live with us. I had a total hysterectomy last Wednesday and he was not able to be there because of his father. I had to ask our kids to be there instead and that is the last thing I ever wanted, is to be a burden on my children.
I believe I said that it was MY wish. Has nothing to do with what others would do. Your FIL's wish that he stay in his own home puts a hard burden on your family which I understand. I am not putting a burden on my children by refusing their invitation to come live with them. I'm perfectly capable of driving myself for my medical care and don't have to be accompanied. Comparisons in this case are futile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
I totally get what you're saying and you are completely within your right to feel and behave as you do. I have a 90 year old aunt who lives independently and still drives, still cooks, still goes to church on her own - she's mobile and alert and she even does things like get online and order stuff, etc. She's fantastic! She and my cousin just came to visit me a couple of weeks ago and I just got the sweetest thank you card from her. Some people can live independently and SHOULD if that's what they want to do and they are not expecting other people to continue some sort of facade of "independent living" when they are actually not at all independent and in fact a danger to themselves or others.
Bully for your aunt. I'd like to think I can continue to do the same when I'm 90.
Or just themselves. Like my mom (who does have some cognitive issues which you touched on in general so I'm not arguing with you). Say that my mom had no cognitive issues - she just didn't like to wear her fall sensor and she just refused to carry a phone around with her (that sounds about like her three years ago). She doesn't believe she could fall. In fact, she DID fall - and laid there for hours till my dad got up (he was hard of hearing and couldn't hear her calling for him and she fell in the middle of the night). She broke her hip. But that wasn't OK with her. She didn't WANT to lay there for hours on a cold tile floor with a broken hip.
So if she'd been living alone, she would have needed to implement some additional safety measures - like you've done. Carry a phone around with her, maybe wear a fall alarm, something like that. My issue comes in with people who refuse to take common sense measures but then expect family to jump through hoops with them when their lack of planning and foresight balloons into an emergency.
I don't think I can't fall. I just take every precaution I can NOT to fall. Sadly, one cannot prepare for an emergency. All we can do is make a general outline and plan accordingly.
In the case of your Mother, she has definite, diagnosed, cognitive problems. Anyone who is dressed for Sunday church on Friday is not oriented to time and definitely needs to be in a place where she can be cared for.
So that the record is straight, I did not say at any point that I had a problem with people who must be in some type of situation to receive on-going care. Certainly, some people are unable to care for themselves. Not everyone has a family who can deal with being a care-giver. I'm speaking only for myself. When and if I'm a drooling incontinent who thinks Tony Curtis is the president, it really isn't going to matter much where I am, is it? In the meantime, I'd like to be home.
[b] I don't think I can't fall. I just take every precaution I can NOT to fall. Sadly, one cannot prepare for an emergency. All we can do is make a general outline and plan accordingly.
In the case of your Mother, she has definite, diagnosed, cognitive problems. Anyone who is dressed for Sunday church on Friday is not oriented to time and definitely needs to be in a place where she can be cared for.
So that the record is straight, I did not say at any point that I had a problem with people who must be in some type of situation to receive on-going care. Certainly, some people are unable to care for themselves. Not everyone has a family who can deal with being a care-giver. I'm speaking only for myself. When and if I'm a drooling incontinent who thinks Tony Curtis is the president, it really isn't going to matter much where I am, is it? In the meantime, I'd like to be home.
Oh I totally agree with you and your decision to remain in your home seems like a great plan for you at this stage of your life - and hopefully for many years to come.
You know, the really touchy scenarios usually fall somewhere in between your active state, and a drooling incontinent though. Not saying YOU would do this, but my inlaws (and many other people with their sorts of challenges) stayed in their own home long past when they should have moved into a senior living situation. By the time they finally did it - once again, they, and we, had to operate in reactive rather than proactive mode.
That SUCKS.
Thank God my parents heard enough of my horror stories with my inlaws to realize they needed to line things out legally, ethically, rationally - while they still could think clearly and were relatively independent. So when things took a sudden and serious downturn, and they had to have help RIGHT THEN, I was prepared emotionally as well as legally and practically and that made a huge difference. And even so - it's really hard for everyone.
So it's become a sort of personal mission with me to constantly encourage people to talk these things out, get legal paperwork in place, get finances as streamlined and easy as possible so that when or if someone else trusted needs to step in, they can do so with as little stress as possible. After all, I can attest to this - they will already be stressed out to the max - there's no point in having to reinvent every single wheel or fight unnecessary legal or logistical matters at such a stressful time.
My 90 year old aunt is my personal hero - maybe we will both be lucky and be like her when we're in our 90s!
So what happens when a person ends up with dementia? Physically can't use the toilet and wears diapers? Medicare and Medicaid are VERY restrictive of what they will pay for. Getting someone to check in on you? Who do you get to check in on someone? Someone in diapers doesn't need to be checked in on. They need someone with them usually around the clock. That's extremely expensive and hard to find decent people to do it.
Not if they are willing to sit in them until someone comes. You might be amazed at some things people will tolerate to stay at home.
Oh I totally agree with you and your decision to remain in your home seems like a great plan for you at this stage of your life - and hopefully for many years to come.
You know, the really touchy scenarios usually fall somewhere in between your active state, and a drooling incontinent though. Not saying YOU would do this, but my inlaws (and many other people with their sorts of challenges) stayed in their own home long past when they should have moved into a senior living situation. By the time they finally did it - once again, they, and we, had to operate in reactive rather than proactive mode.
That SUCKS.
Thank God my parents heard enough of my horror stories with my inlaws to realize they needed to line things out legally, ethically, rationally - while they still could think clearly and were relatively independent. So when things took a sudden and serious downturn, and they had to have help RIGHT THEN, I was prepared emotionally as well as legally and practically and that made a huge difference. And even so - it's really hard for everyone.
So it's become a sort of personal mission with me to constantly encourage people to talk these things out, get legal paperwork in place, get finances as streamlined and easy as possible so that when or if someone else trusted needs to step in, they can do so with as little stress as possible. After all, I can attest to this - they will already be stressed out to the max - there's no point in having to reinvent every single wheel or fight unnecessary legal or logistical matters at such a stressful time.
My 90 year old aunt is my personal hero - maybe we will both be lucky and be like her when we're in our 90s!
I've learned a lot from you over the years about this subject. It's lead to discussions in my house about what I want. I'm only in my 40's and I've started thinking about it. I bug my parents to get it in writing and have ignored my requests so far because "they're going to be here for years". Sigh
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