Should Illinois have a second flagship university? (Champaign, Urbana: campus, rated)

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by FalstaffBlues

Sorry if I’m making it sound like a Chicago v. downstate thing. It isn’t. It is a U of I v. SIU thing. SIU was built by Chicagoans.

Also, it would not be surprising if UIC surpasses UIUC in the next 50 years. Another round of Global reurbanization is afoot. UIC better positioned to prosper in the 21st century

It seems to me that SIU’s biggest problem comes when you call it SIUC and pit it against the school it fears the most, not Illinois but SIUE. Forget about metro Chicago. The metro in focus here is St. Louis and SIUE gets a real edge on this one on both banks of the Mississippi. Scenic Carbondale is in the middle of nowhere in comparison

[SkylarkPhotoBooth]

Originally Posted by Bitey

OK, so now we've shifted the culprits from "Chicago" to "Chicagoland,"

C'mon, you know as well as I do that when people from downstate (or anywhere else outside of the Chicago area) say "Chicago" they mean the metro area. Chicagoland isn't a term that is used much outside of the area.

Originally Posted by Bitey

And why on Earth would Chicago-area legislators care about a supposed competition between two downstate schools for top students? Do you have any evidence for this claim?

As part of serving the constituents who elected them, in hopes of being re-elected, doesn't it go without saying that legislators are more likely to fund the universities that their constituents are likely to attend? (That's not to mention the obvious influence of campaign finance and lobbying.)

Also, calling them "two downstate schools" is rather misleading when one is in the central part of the state and the other is in the far Southern tip. From Chicago it's the difference between a 2 1/2 hour drive and a 5 1/2 hour drive.

I'm not saying what Fallstaff is describing happened or didn't happen (I don't know the history), but I'm answering your "why" question. The incentive for it to happen makes perfect sense to me.

[JONOV]

Originally Posted by UsAll

When I think of the primary "flagship universities" of Illinois, I think if (in no partciular ranking or order) the following: University of Chicago, Northwestern University, University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana. Otherwise, one might also add: Univeristy of Illinois at Chicago, Ilinois Institute of Technology.

How is it that you think that the "University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana" is the only singular noteworthy university in the state of Illinois? "Northwestern University" and the "University of Chicago" are just as preeminent (if not even more so in some comparisons). Unless I don't understand what you mean when you use the term "flagship university".

It's the only one with national public notoriety and recognition. NU and UC are arguably higher profile, at least academically, but are private.

[Bitey]

Originally Posted by FalstaffBlues

Ok try to follow.

1.) There is no difference between Chicago and Chicagoland to anyone who lives outside of it. No one gives a damn. Chicago and Chicagoland are interchangeable to literally everyone in the world who isn’t in Chicago or Chicagoland.

2.) Chicago = Illinois. The legislature is overwhelmingly made up of Chicago(land) politicians. The students that fill up Illinois universities are overwhelmingly Chicago(land) students.

3.) Those Chicago(land) politicians chose to support U of I over SIU so that it would cease to compete with U of I for Chicago(land) students.

4.) Chicago(land) students started looking elsewhere as that same legislature pushed the cost of higher ed to a point where it was uneconomical for Illinois residents to get their degree at Illinois universities.

5.) What is the common understanding of the term “flagship?” Because to me it seems like you’re hung up on the name while ignoring the historic enrollment and research that clearly make/made SIU the other Flagship university. If a top 100 university and top 50 public university doesn’t qualify for “Flagship” status in your eyes then your vision is warped.

SIU was a better University than the majority of the schools that currently make up the SEC and BIG 12 as recently as the 80s. It was absolutely a flagship university.

If it didn’t have a directional name and had D-1 sports would that be enough for you?

1) Your imprecise language is your problem, not mine. If you don't want to be misunderstood, be more specific.

2) And therefore... ?

3) You keep saying this but you provide no evidence for it.

4) That's an entirely different premise than the first one you proffered and a different topic entirely.

5) What constitutes a flagship university has already been discussed ad nauseum in this thread, consider reading it for your edification. A university that started out life as a teaching college, has enrollment and funding much more on par with the other directional schools than the actual flagship, and doesn't compete with the other flagship in academic reputation doesn't qualify, even if it's a better school than the other directional schools or schools in certain athletic conferences.

6) No.

[Jon998877]

I graduated high school in 1986 in the Kankakee area, and apparently I missed SIU being the Harvard of the Midwest... back then it seemed like ISU and SIU were pretty even, today its not even close.. who the hell wants to spend 4 years in Carbondale??????

[MassVt]

If you are already from Chicago, I understand the need for a change, but if not...spending 4 years in Carbondale is emphatically not a good alternative to spending 4 years in Chicago. If I live in Chicagoland, and want a change of scenery , and remain in the Midwest, I'd try Madison, Ann Arbor or the U of Minn in MSP..

[damba]

Originally Posted by MassVt

If you are already from Chicago, I understand the need for a change, but if not...spending 4 years in Carbondale is emphatically not a good alternative to spending 4 years in Chicago. If I live in Chicagoland, and want a change of scenery , and remain in the Midwest, I'd try Madison, Ann Arbor or the U of Minn in MSP..

Exactly!

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by damba

Exactly!

I agree (but feel he could have thrown in Bloomington and Iowa City as well

[Maintainschaos]

Originally Posted by edsg25

I agree (but feel he could have thrown in Bloomington and Iowa City as well

Not all students can get into Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin etc. nor can they afford to go out-of-state and pay those higher tuition prices. In-state universities like ISU, SIUC, SIUE, offer legitimately decent educations with in-state tuition costs, and they are also world’s away (philosophically and by distance) from Chicago. I mean, your average Chicagoland high school student with modestly good grades living in a truly middle class household isn’t going to Michigan unless there are additional extenuating circumstances...

[SkylarkPhotoBooth]

Originally Posted by edsg25

I agree (but feel he could have thrown in Bloomington and Iowa City as well

Funny, I was thinking of those two, also, as far as nice Big 10 college towns go.

Actually, forget about how Carbondale stacks up against that list-- Champaign/Urbana doesn't really compare to them, either.