Should Illinois have a second flagship university? (Champaign, Urbana: mortgage, private schools)

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by Hiruko

This thread didn't draw me here; it was the comment that did. Good for you for having your fantasies.

Gee, I am sorry, Hiruko, I completely misunderstood. You see, I remember your comments that with my outstanding ideas and way with words, I should write a blog instead of starting up new threads here. You seemed to have given me the idea you thought my blogs would be brilliant and you would be an avid reader.

Anyway, I apologize for any confusion here and take full responsibility for the error of misreading your intent.

and you and I are definitely on the same page with the notion that having fantasy in your life during these grim times is a very good thing. We are simpatico.:So, as always, thanks so much for sharing.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by SkylarkPhotoBooth

All the national and global rankings I've seen put U of C ahead of Northwestern. Northwestern is sometimes in the Top 10, but U of C is often in the top 3-5.

U of C doesn't always get noticed by the average person because they focus a little less on undergraduate programs and a little more on graduate, professional, and research programs, and also because they don't do big time sports (which shouldn't matter, but somehow does in the weird environment we've created), but in terms of reputation for academics it's one of the top institutions in the world.

You’re right, of course, it shouldn’t matter. But in reality, it always did. Ivy League universities were blue bloods long before intersholastic sports were starting up near the turn of the century. And during that era, football, sucessful football, created high profile, high exposure. If you look at that era, you see schools where a good football programs helped a university grow and prosper. Schools like Michigan, Notre Dame, Chicago and Stanford capitalized on highly successful football programs to raise their prominence

Norhwestern benefitted greatly from its amazing 1995 record and Rose Bowl appearance.

U of C football had gone sauer years before Hutchins pulled the plug. I have no idea how Chicago would have faired with a face if it didn’t drop out of the Big Ten. But it would be hard to deny that Power 5 conference universities like Stanford, Duke and Northwestern would be considerd Chicago’s peers

[Jon998877]

55% of Illinois kids that go to a 4 year college are going outside of the states borders, so we are losing a ton of kids. A big reason is that we do not have a school that fills the gap for the kids that do not get accepted into UICU, so they go to schools such as Iowa, Indiana, Kansas etc.. So if we were smart, we would start funneling more money to Illinois State and get them ranked more evenly with the bottom rung of the Big Ten, that would be a sound investment by the state. Currently ISU receives fewer state dollars per student than any school in the state, which boggles my mind because the school is so well ran. Downtown Normal has been transformed into something very nice and gives that campus feel that the other state schools do not have (except UICU)..

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by Jon998877

55% of Illinois kids that go to a 4 year college are going outside of the states borders, so we are losing a ton of kids. A big reason is that we do not have a school that fills the gap for the kids that do not get accepted into UICU, so they go to schools such as Iowa, Indiana, Kansas etc.. So if we were smart, we would start funneling more money to Illinois State and get them ranked more evenly with the bottom rung of the Big Ten, that would be a sound investment by the state. Currently ISU receives fewer state dollars per student than any school in the state, which boggles my mind because the school is so well ran. Downtown Normal has been transformed into something very nice and gives that campus feel that the other state schools do not have (except UICU)..

I agree with this. The way it is built around its mall, Illinois State is a like a smaller version of Illinois

[SkylarkPhotoBooth]

Originally Posted by edsg25

You’re right, of course, it shouldn’t matter. But in reality, it always did. Ivy League universities were blue bloods long before intersholastic sports were starting up near the turn of the century. And during that era, football, sucessful football, created high profile, high exposure. If you look at that era, you see schools where a good football programs helped a university grow and prosper. Schools like Michigan, Notre Dame, Chicago and Stanford capitalized on highly successful football programs to raise their prominence

Norhwestern benefitted greatly from its amazing 1995 record and Rose Bowl appearance.

U of C football had gone sauer years before Hutchins pulled the plug. I have no idea how Chicago would have faired with a face if it didn’t drop out of the Big Ten. But it would be hard to deny that Power 5 conference universities like Stanford, Duke and Northwestern would be considerd Chicago’s peers

All true, but my main point was that the people who rank academics still put U of C above those other institutions, even if their lack of major sports makes them less known by Joe Six Pack, who isn't really their target demographic, anyway.

In what way did Northwestern benefit from its Rose Bowl appearance? I'm sure they made some TV money and sold some t-shirts and season tickets, but that's pocket change in comparison to their endowment, especially after you back out the cost of attempting to have competitive football program year in and year out to have one big bowl game every quarter century.

For schools who are trying to increase their application numbers from around the country, being on TV always helps, which is why you see so many of the mid-to-lower-ranking (academically) state schools striving to build good athletics programs. (I bet Boise State gets a lot more out-of-state applicants than it did 20 years ago, for example.) For schools like U of C and Northwestern, however, their academic reputations assure that they get the type of applicants they want. The top students (and their parents, counselors, and teachers) who are looking at the top schools across the country are going to know about them regardless of whether they saw their football team on TV.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by SkylarkPhotoBooth

All true, but my main point was that the people who rank academics still put U of C above those other institutions, even if their lack of major sports makes them less known by Joe Six Pack, who isn't really their target demographic, anyway.

In what way did Northwestern benefit from its Rose Bowl appearance? I'm sure they made some TV money and sold some t-shirts and season tickets, but that's pocket change in comparison to their endowment, especially after you back out the cost of attempting to have competitive football program year in and year out to have one big bowl game every quarter century.

For schools who are trying to increase their application numbers from around the country, being on TV always helps, which is why you see so many of the mid-to-lower-ranking (academically) state schools striving to build good athletics programs. (I bet Boise State gets a lot more out-of-state applicants than it did 20 years ago, for example.) For schools like U of C and Northwestern, however, their academic reputations assure that they get the type of applicants they want. The top students (and their parents, counselors, and teachers) who are looking at the top schools across the country are going to know about them regardless of whether they saw their football team on TV.

U of C also almost thrives on its reputation of academic vigor above all else with scant attention paid to any sports. Certainly its counterparts in the Ivy League as a whole isn’t very well known as an engine for churning out pro sports superstars.

As for the topic at hand, I think making the University of Illinois system a premier system the way that University of California has done where each campus is quite good as well as upgrading ISU is a good track. I actually think consolidating all of the none University of Illinois systems into one might be a good idea.

[Hiruko]

Why do people dismiss college athletics as just about money? There are a lot of people that are interested in excelling in college athletics—athletic programs attract people to schools, you know.

[Jon998877]

Originally Posted by Hiruko

Why do people dismiss college athletics as just about money? There are a lot of people that are interested in excelling in college athletics—athletic programs attract people to schools, you know.

Illini athletics have been awful last 10 years and their enrollment has increased to record levels..

[SkylarkPhotoBooth]

Originally Posted by Hiruko

Why do people dismiss college athletics as just about money? There are a lot of people that are interested in excelling in college athletics—athletic programs attract people to schools, you know.

If you mean it helps a university to increase their enrollment, then that is still "about money"-- bringing in more tuition money. If you mean it helps highly selective universities (who are all ready getting many times more applicants than they can accept) to attract even higher-quality applicants, then I'm not convinced having a top-notch football program matters much, as evidenced by the aforementioned U of C.

[Hiruko]

Originally Posted by SkylarkPhotoBooth

If you mean it helps a university to increase their enrollment, then that is still "about money"-- bringing in more tuition money. If you mean it helps highly selective universities (who are all ready getting many times more applicants than they can accept) to attract even higher-quality applicants, then I'm not convinced having a top-notch football program matters much, as evidenced by the aforementioned U of C.

I get the feeling that a lot of you did not attend high-ranking colleges/universities. There are a lot of people who excel in both academics and athletics. Schools like Northwestern, Michigan, and Illinois offer elite educations and opportunities to participate in Big Ten Conference athletics. Those are very attractive features.

Originally Posted by Jon998877

Illini athletics have been awful last 10 years and their enrollment has increased to record levels..

Just because their teams have not won many championships does not mean that the athletic programs are terrible. There are many schools like BYU that have not won many championships but nonetheless have highly regarded and elite athletic programs.