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Complex problem requiring a complex solution, but here goes an attempt at a simple answer anyways:
Technically, Chicago is desegregated, but we all know that sociologically it is a "city of neighborhoods."
Back in the 60s, Pres. Johnson commissioned a panel of experts to analyze things. They wrote their White Paper that led to the "school bussing" program. It was postulated that ghetto black kids, if exposed to the more successful lifestyles & habits of the more middle class white kids, they'd get the hint....
...The problem was, these geniuses with an agenda ignored the well thought out sociological theories of their predecessors (mostly from Uof C, BTW) that when immigrants go to a new country, it takes three full generations to gradually lose the ways of the Old Country and become fully "Americanized" (in terms of our country)....We're talking 60-80 yrs.
There's also the problem of back diffusion: the immigrant picks up the new culture, but also sees some of his culture transferred to the new culture. (Even WASPs love pizza.)...And, human psychology being what it is, it's the facile thigs that persist, not the difficult things. We see more white kids break dancing & speaking Ebonics today than we see blacks waltzing or speaking like Ivy League Snobs.
We don't need to explicitly paint a too detailed picture to imagine what a wholesale dispersal of poor/high crime rate neighborhood dwellers to the safer Chicago neighborhoods would do to crime rates there, do we?...If The Theory is right, (and it seems to be. Cf- the famous behavior patterns in the 1920s Italian neighborhoods, for instance, compared to the lifestyle of present day Italian descendants scattered throughout the city & 'burbs), it'll take 60-80 yrs to equilibrate....
..but then, even a journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step. ( Hey--that's good! You can write it down.)
Complex problem requiring a complex solution, but here goes an attempt at a simple answer anyways:
Technically, Chicago is desegregated, but we all know that sociologically it is a "city of neighborhoods."
Back in the 60s, Pres. Johnson commissioned a panel of experts to analyze things. They wrote their White Paper that led to the "school bussing" program. It was postulated that ghetto black kids, if exposed to the more successful lifestyles & habits of the more middle class white kids, they'd get the hint....
...The problem was, these geniuses with an agenda ignored the well thought out sociological theories of their predecessors (mostly from Uof C, BTW) that when immigrants go to a new country, it takes three full generations to gradually lose the ways of the Old Country and become fully "Americanized" (in terms of our country)....We're talking 60-80 yrs.
There's also the problem of back diffusion: the immigrant picks up the new culture, but also sees some of his culture transferred to the new culture. (Even WASPs love pizza.)...And, human psychology being what it is, it's the facile thigs that persist, not the difficult things. We see more white kids break dancing & speaking Ebonics today than we see blacks waltzing or speaking like Ivy League Snobs.
We don't need to explicitly paint a too detailed picture to imagine what a wholesale dispersal of poor/high crime rate neighborhood dwellers to the safer Chicago neighborhoods would do to crime rates there, do we?...If The Theory is right, (and it seems to be. Cf- the famous behavior patterns in the 1920s Italian neighborhoods, for instance, compared to the lifestyle of present day Italian descendants scattered throughout the city & 'burbs), it'll take 60-80 yrs to equilibrate....
..but then, even a journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step. ( Hey--that's good! You can write it down.)
Italian immigration and the black experience aren't really comparable though since the Italians were eventually able to be considered "white."
nino jr, with all due respect, the Italians WERE considered to be on a lower rung of the ladder.
Yet to my understanding, they maintained families intact, sought employment, ran stores in their neighborhoods, kept their homes and neighborhoods clean, etc.
And yes, their was a crime presence in their communities. But as a group I believe they worked hard to lift themselves up! And they did it within, what, 50 or so years after being in the United States?
Complex problem requiring a complex solution, but here goes an attempt at a simple answer anyways:
Technically, Chicago is desegregated, but we all know that sociologically it is a "city of neighborhoods."
Back in the 60s, Pres. Johnson commissioned a panel of experts to analyze things. They wrote their White Paper that led to the "school bussing" program. It was postulated that ghetto black kids, if exposed to the more successful lifestyles & habits of the more middle class white kids, they'd get the hint....
...The problem was, these geniuses with an agenda ignored the well thought out sociological theories of their predecessors (mostly from Uof C, BTW) that when immigrants go to a new country, it takes three full generations to gradually lose the ways of the Old Country and become fully "Americanized" (in terms of our country)....We're talking 60-80 yrs.
There's also the problem of back diffusion: the immigrant picks up the new culture, but also sees some of his culture transferred to the new culture. (Even WASPs love pizza.)...And, human psychology being what it is, it's the facile thigs that persist, not the difficult things. We see more white kids break dancing & speaking Ebonics today than we see blacks waltzing or speaking like Ivy League Snobs.
We don't need to explicitly paint a too detailed picture to imagine what a wholesale dispersal of poor/high crime rate neighborhood dwellers to the safer Chicago neighborhoods would do to crime rates there, do we?...If The Theory is right, (and it seems to be. Cf- the famous behavior patterns in the 1920s Italian neighborhoods, for instance, compared to the lifestyle of present day Italian descendants scattered throughout the city & 'burbs), it'll take 60-80 yrs to equilibrate....
..but then, even a journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step. ( Hey--that's good! You can write it down.)
One thing that fostered integration between groups like the Irish and Italians, was intermarriage, think "West Side Story". This has not happened with African Americans, at least until the last few decades. I remember an "All in the Family" episode where George Jefferson's brother and Archie are actually in agreement over Gloria and Lionel potentially dating on equally "racist" grounds, I remember Lionel's uncle saying "I don't want no cream in the coffee!", and Archie being offended by it, LOL, even though they were in overall agreement.
I cannot explain my own preferences toward whom I find "sexually attractive", but I'd be foolish to think that social learning has not played a part. From a dating perspective, I'm just not attracted to 95% of black women. But I'm not attracted to overweight women period, so that probably has something to do with it, slim black women are not as common as the opposite, at least in Chicago. There are people who claim one is "homophobic" if they refuse to date transsexuals (even those who have not fully transitioned, LOL). Sorry, not interested in "outies", and to be honest, most "innies", although if that Freddie Mercury guy would have hit on me, who knows, LOL..... I do remember being 19 and working with an older black guy on a floor sanding crew in 1976, we went to a job in Hyde Park and there was a black girl about my age (a little younger) who I thought was an absolute knockout, she looked like a young Diana Ross. I mentioned the attraction to my partner, and he was less than approving, LOL. I think back on it (I have the blessing and curse of being able to replay many memories as if they a VCR tape), and I'm pretty sure she liked me as well. But it was "taboo" at the time, and I was still in the honeymoon period of dating a Polish / Italian babe anyway, she was "The one who got away". To be honest, I'd give all the remaining years of my life if I could go back and relive just a few of the years from the 1970's - if you've got any pull with the Big Guy, see what you can do about that, will you?
Bottom line is that AA's not integrating into American Society via intermarriage is an outlier in America's history, and is partially to blame for the mess we're in right now. And the blame for it needs to be shared, I guess. As an aside, Latino's are dating/marrying whites much more frequently, at least in my view.
Last edited by Curly Q. Bobalink; 08-12-2020 at 02:23 PM..
Reason: typo
You have to be careful with these generalizations. In my experience (which IMO is substantial), average people who live in these segregated areas have no issue with diversity (i.e. whites) moving in. In fact, they welcome it. It is the small activist groups who purport to speak for these lower income residents and more vocal members from a certain political party which dominates around here and do not live in the area who have an issue with it. Psychologically, the former group is usually dominated by angry bitter and often racist people looking for a target. For the latter group, there's kind of a parental/superiority element to it. That's as best as I can describe it. But you won't encounter that in your daily life in one of these areas.
Not directly on point, but analytically similar, to use legalese
“Coming into our community for just one day and then run out,” Kidd said. “Everyday. If they got something to say about the police, we got to deal with it tomorrow. The community. Not them. They’ll be somewhere sipping sangria.”
Italian immigration and the black experience aren't really comparable though since the Italians were eventually able to be considered "white."
It's not that they became "white" (I've been described as being "off-white" but they became "American."
Blacks, even in the last 50 yrs where the legal impediments to them fitting in have been essentially removed, often still persist in "acting black" when in public. Other ethnic groups may retain their ethnic speech, behaviors & dress at home among family, but try hard to fit in when in public..."When in Rome, do as the Romans do." (You can write that one down too.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink
One thing that fostered integration between groups like the Irish and Italians, was intermarriage, think "West Side Story". .
Good point. Like I said, really complex. I tried to simplify it...I myself am a mulatto of sorts: Sicilian/Catholic mother & Volga Deutsch/Protestant father- a union that wasn't well received by all back in '47. I felt the friction as a little kid, sensing differential treatment by the paternal family, and when we moved to the suburbs in '55, I was treated as somewhat of a curiosity by some who never saw an olive skinned/black haired kid before....Thirty yrs later, it was perfectly natural to wind up marrying a girl of Irish extraction. (It seemed like such a good idea at the time. )
I agree wholeheartedly. I live in an inner-ring suburb which is primarily mixed between older white people and younger Latino and Asian families. My house is being prepped for sale. Please buy it and give it to whomever you want to live there in order to reach your imagined level of racial equality.
I for one, am completely fed up with living in Way-Too-Blue Metro Chicago and Illinois, I'll be taking my life's savings, SS, pension, and Medicare, and moving to a "red city in a red county in a red state", if I can find one (shouldn't be too hard, Kansas and Nebraska are looking pretty good, as are Utah, Idaho, Arizona, Montana, and South Dakota). Someplace where people respect the 2nd amendment, property rights, the police, and human safety (and where BLM supporters are far and few between). Mostly, to get away from people who think like you do. You'll not miss me one iota, because I'm just a drop in the bucket. But as more and more people start thinking like me, I guarantee you're going to miss us a WHOLE bunch. It took over sixty years, but you've finally driven me out, congratulations. But my guess is you're going to start missing people who worked hard their whole lives, have no criminal record, pay all taxes as asked, and simply wanted to live their lives without bothering anyone else. Good Luck with What Comes Next, maybe Chicago can ask Detroit for a loan.
South Dakota - if you ever listen to the governor, she is spot on! she is one of the states that refused to comingle with the cray cray having to do with shutdowns.. hence, her state has a very very low amount of covid bad stuff. she also speaks like she is intelligent, and has something to say, not like a typical politician who is fake.
I recommend South Dakota !
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