Eternal Torment preached at my daughter's Baccalaureate (Jehovah's Witness, hell, doctrine)
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Tonight a public speaker flew in from Atlanta to speak at my daughter's baccalaureate. The main topic was heaven or hell. This guy rubbs elbows with all the famous athletes. He starts off by asking the audience if anyone believe hell is eternal. I said "NO!" But he didn't get a good enough response from the audience so he asked the question again "Does anyone here believe hell is eternal?" and this time I yelled "NO!!!!". Lot's of people turned around and looked right at me. He continued as if nothing was said.
He spent 45 minutes mentally abusing the graduates telling them all about how God is going to eternally torment them in hell if they don't believe in Him. He kept snapping his fingers and saying "every second two people in the world die. Before your head hits the pillow over a hundred thousand people will have died in the world. What are you going to do about it? All those people will go to heaven or hell he said.
After the abuse session I had a word with him in front of my daughter. I asked him, Mark, would your earthly father torture you if you didn't do what he told you to do? He snapped back: "What's your point." So I asked again, very gently, Would your dad build a bonfire in the back yard and torture you in those flames if you didn't do what he told you to do. He replied "No. What's your point." So I asked him if his earthly father is more loving than his heavenly father.
Then I started telling him all about 1 Timothy 2:4-6 how that God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all. I told him to do a study on the world "ransom" through the whole bible and prove to himself that everyone ransomed had to be freed. He replied, Yea but there is a hell and lots of people are going there. I replied, Mark, what did I just say? I said "God will have all mankind to be saved because Christ ransomed all mankind. He asked, What's the context? I replied "we are to pray for all mankind, for kings and all who are in authority for God will have all mankind to be saved for Christ ransomed all." He asked: Are you a Jehovah's Witness?" I said No. He said: Well there is a hell and there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. I replied that that hell is Gehenna and it is only for the thousand years. And I said the lake of fire is the second death and that no one suffers in the lake of fire because it is death. He replied, "yea but it is for ever and ever and ever and ever." I replied, No it is just for ever and ever. He replied, well that's eternity isn't it? I said no and I rattled off the Greek for it. So he told me to send him some literature and he'd read it. He said "You can't prove to me it's not eternal." I laughed and pointed my finger right at him and said "I sure can prove it's not eternal!"
I told him, Mark, you are tormented by this. He said "No I'm not." I said of course you are. You are tormented. I told him I used to preach hell and damnation. He said you need to get back to it. I said to just search out the word "ransom" and prove to yourself that all ransomed must be freed.
My daughter was amazed I wouldn't back down from this 6'6 or so tall guy.
Anyway, what book do you think I should send him that you think would really help him?
Tonight a public speaker flew in from Atlanta to speak at my daughter's baccalaureate. The main topic was heaven or hell. This guy rubbs elbows with all the famous athletes. He starts off by asking the audience if anyone believe hell is eternal. I said "NO!" But he didn't get a good enough response from the audience so he asked the question again "Does anyone here believe hell is eternal?" and this time I yelled "NO!!!!". Lot's of people turned around and looked right at me. He continued as if nothing was said.
He spent 45 minutes mentally abusing the graduates telling them all about how God is going to eternally torment them in hell if they don't believe in Him. He kept snapping his fingers and saying "every second two people in the world die. Before your head hits the pillow over a hundred thousand people will have died in the world. What are you going to do about it? All those people will go to heaven or hell he said.
After the abuse session I had a word with him in front of my daughter. I asked him, Mark, would your earthly father torture you if you didn't do what he told you to do? He snapped back: "What's your point." So I asked again, very gently, Would your dad build a bonfire in the back yard and torture you in those flames if you didn't do what he told you to do. He replied "No. What's your point." So I asked him if his earthly father is more loving than his heavenly father.
Then I started telling him all about 1 Timothy 2:4-6 how that God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all. I told him to do a study on the world "ransom" through the whole bible and prove to himself that everyone ransomed had to be freed. He replied, Yea but there is a hell and lots of people are going there. I replied, Mark, what did I just say? I said "God will have all mankind to be saved because Christ ransomed all mankind. He asked, What's the context? I replied "we are to pray for all mankind, for kings and all who are in authority for God will have all mankind to be saved for Christ ransomed all." He asked: Are you a Jehovah's Witness?" I said No. He said: Well there is a hell and there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. I replied that that hell is Gehenna and it is only for the thousand years. And I said the lake of fire is the second death and that no one suffers in the lake of fire because it is death. He replied, "yea but it is for ever and ever and ever and ever." I replied, No it is just for ever and ever. He replied, well that's eternity isn't it? I said no and I rattled off the Greek for it. So he told me to send him some literature and he'd read it. He said "You can't prove to me it's not eternal." I laughed and pointed my finger right at him and said "I sure can prove it's not eternal!"
I told him, Mark, you are tormented by this. He said "No I'm not." I said of course you are. You are tormented. I told him I used to preach hell and damnation. He said you need to get back to it. I said to just search out the word "ransom" and prove to yourself that all ransomed must be freed.
My daughter was amazed I wouldn't back down from this 6'6 or so tall guy.
Anyway, what book do you think I should send him that you think would really help him?
I'm not that brave, yet. Good for you.
You just reminded me why I am SO GLAD we are not in the middle ages!!! But, it could get pretty bad here in the United States, soon. The religious fervor seems to be picking up, and it would be the Universalists (the ones who will not CHOOSE a side, i.e. cowards) who are run over by the mob.
Tonight a public speaker flew in from Atlanta to speak at my daughter's baccalaureate. The main topic was heaven or hell. This guy rubbs elbows with all the famous athletes. He starts off by asking the audience if anyone believe hell is eternal. I said "NO!" But he didn't get a good enough response from the audience so he asked the question again "Does anyone here believe hell is eternal?" and this time I yelled "NO!!!!". Lot's of people turned around and looked right at me. He continued as if nothing was said.
He spent 45 minutes mentally abusing the graduates telling them all about how God is going to eternally torment them in hell if they don't believe in Him. He kept snapping his fingers and saying "every second two people in the world die. Before your head hits the pillow over a hundred thousand people will have died in the world. What are you going to do about it? All those people will go to heaven or hell he said.
After the abuse session I had a word with him in front of my daughter. I asked him, Mark, would your earthly father torture you if you didn't do what he told you to do? He snapped back: "What's your point." So I asked again, very gently, Would your dad build a bonfire in the back yard and torture you in those flames if you didn't do what he told you to do. He replied "No. What's your point." So I asked him if his earthly father is more loving than his heavenly father.
Then I started telling him all about 1 Timothy 2:4-6 how that God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all. I told him to do a study on the world "ransom" through the whole bible and prove to himself that everyone ransomed had to be freed. He replied, Yea but there is a hell and lots of people are going there. I replied, Mark, what did I just say? I said "God will have all mankind to be saved because Christ ransomed all mankind. He asked, What's the context? I replied "we are to pray for all mankind, for kings and all who are in authority for God will have all mankind to be saved for Christ ransomed all." He asked: Are you a Jehovah's Witness?" I said No. He said: Well there is a hell and there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. I replied that that hell is Gehenna and it is only for the thousand years. And I said the lake of fire is the second death and that no one suffers in the lake of fire because it is death. He replied, "yea but it is for ever and ever and ever and ever." I replied, No it is just for ever and ever. He replied, well that's eternity isn't it? I said no and I rattled off the Greek for it. So he told me to send him some literature and he'd read it. He said "You can't prove to me it's not eternal." I laughed and pointed my finger right at him and said "I sure can prove it's not eternal!"
I told him, Mark, you are tormented by this. He said "No I'm not." I said of course you are. You are tormented. I told him I used to preach hell and damnation. He said you need to get back to it. I said to just search out the word "ransom" and prove to yourself that all ransomed must be freed.
My daughter was amazed I wouldn't back down from this 6'6 or so tall guy.
Anyway, what book do you think I should send him that you think would really help him?
Just because you don't believe it, that doesn't make it any less true. All it means is.... you just don't believe it! I'd say this guy is on to something......and I mean, on the mark! What book would do I think you should send him, that you think would really help him? Is it not the Bible he preaches from? Then "MARK" his words...he's got it right!
You just reminded me why I am SO GLAD we are not in the middle ages!!! But, it could get pretty bad here in the United States, soon. The religious fervor seems to be picking up, and it would be the Universalists (the ones who will not CHOOSE a side, i.e. cowards) who are run over by the mob.
It's NOT about Universalist against ET! You are missing the POINT!! It's about those who have chosen....AND THEY"RE not cowards! Is that how you really view them?
Yes, it is all about the undecided, but I would never call them that! When did you 'arrived"?
Just because you don't believe it, that doesn't make it any less true. All it means is.... you just don't believe it! I'd say this guy is on to something......and I mean, on the mark! What book would do I think you should send him, that you think would really help him? Is it not the Bible he preaches from? Then "MARK" his words...he's got it right!
And just because you do believe it doesn't make it any more true.
It's NOT about Universalist against ET! You are missing the POINT!! It's about those who have chosen....AND THEY"RE not cowards! Is that how you really view them?
Yes, it is all about the undecided, but I would never call them that! When did you 'arrived"?
I was calling Universalists "cowards," which is how others see us.
Betsey, we (those that believe in the Restoration of All) are NOT undecided! Personally, I have never been so "decided" in all my life.
Just because you don't believe it, that doesn't make it any less true. All it means is.... you just don't believe it! I'd say this guy is on to something......and I mean, on the mark! What book would do I think you should send him, that you think would really help him? Is it not the Bible he preaches from? Then "MARK" his words...he's got it right!
Just out of curiosity,how many of the ET folks here could even begin to conceive of God punishing 80 years worth of normal human life with neverending torment in the fires of hell if they weren't taught it,told they must believe it,and threatened with the possibility of going there themselves if they began to doubt it?
Could anyone really conceive of such a thing on their own?
That is such an awesome question!
When I was little I was told God was love. All was well. Then I was told he was going to set the people he made on fire for eternity. I went to a very dark place.
The only minds that could have conceived of such things were pagan ones. Not just any old pagans; the ones that believed in warring Greek gods and goddesses. The ONLY reason people hang on to this doctrine (I'm talking about the THINKERS with imagination), is because of fear!
God IS LOVE! What is so hard to understand? I guess we are still TOO human to get it.......
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