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Old 01-11-2011, 08:30 AM
 
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Mark 4:11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables
12 so that,“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’"

Can anyone explain this to me from the eternal torment point of view?

Why would Jesus purposely tell parables so the masses would not understand and would not be forgiven?

Let us put 1+1 together and make 2. If one is not forgiven, ultimately they will end in eternal torment. And Jesus told the masses only parables so they would not understand and so they would not turn and be forgiven. Therefore it seems Jesus is purposely telling them parables so they are more likely to end up in an eternal hell... This doesn't seem to fit the behavior of the Savior of the World.

I'm trying to understand this... thanks if anyone can explain why Jesus would not simply speak clearly so that the masses would turn and be forgiven.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:28 PM
 
5,403 posts, read 4,656,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Mark 4:11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables
12 so that,“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’"

Can anyone explain this to me from the eternal torment point of view?

Why would Jesus purposely tell parables so the masses would not understand and would not be forgiven?

Let us put 1+1 together and make 2. If one is not forgiven, ultimately they will end in eternal torment. And Jesus told the masses only parables so they would not understand and so they would not turn and be forgiven. Therefore it seems Jesus is purposely telling them parables so they are more likely to end up in an eternal hell... This doesn't seem to fit the behavior of the Savior of the World.

I'm trying to understand this... thanks if anyone can explain why Jesus would not simply speak clearly so that the masses would turn and be forgiven.
Many people simply don't want to see, nor understand -- and thus they remain blind; it's all because of their callous hearts.

Stephen said, being full of the Holy Ghost and power:

Acts 7
[51] Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
[52] Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
[53] Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:30 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,402,926 times
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Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Many people simply don't want to see, nor understand -- and thus they remain blind; it's all because of their callous hearts.

Stephen said, being full of the Holy Ghost and power:

Acts 7
[51] Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
[52] Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
[53] Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
But why did Jesus speak in parables? Why did He not speak plainly so they would understand easily?
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
But why did Jesus speak in parables? Why did He not speak plainly so they would understand easily?
Why should He speak plainly if they won't accept it?
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Why should He speak plainly if they won't accept it?
Why should He speak in parables and remove all possibility that they would understood and be forgiven?
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Why should He speak plainly if they won't accept it?
I can't resist this game of Go.

places a piece.

But, if he didn't ever explain clearly, how did he know they wouldn't accept it if he had?
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:05 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,808,279 times
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Why should He speak in parables and remove all possibility that they would understood and be forgiven?
Matthew 13:12-14
This is why I speak to them in parables: To fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand."

Still the best motto I read:

"if you can't convince them .... confuse them"
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Why should He speak in parables and remove all possibility that they would understood and be forgiven?
The Master knows best, and He chose to speak in parables. Why? Because they are hard-hearted and don't want the Truth.

Mark 4
[10] And when he [Jesus] was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
[11] And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
[12] That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Stiff-necked and hard-hearted people will never have a place in God's kingdom, and that's why hell hath enlarged herself to accommodate them all.
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
But, if he didn't ever explain clearly, how did he know they wouldn't accept it if he had?
Because He was not just a man, as He was very God who dwelt among men.
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:59 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,402,926 times
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Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Matthew 13:12-14
This is why I speak to them in parables: To fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand."

Still the best motto I read:

"if you can't convince them .... confuse them"
I don't get why that is a good motto.

Anyway I understand that this was prophesied... but why? is the question.

The scripture says Jesus spoke in parables to fulfill the prophecy SO THEY WOULD NOT BE FORGIVEN.

Did Jesus not want them to be forgiven? Did Jesus want them to stumble into eternal hell? Seems like an odd thing for the savior of the world to do.

Or is this a matter of predestination? They were predestined to eternal hell? Therefore to fulfill the predestination, it must be that they would not understand and not be forgiven?
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