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This is why I'm so thankful not to read the writings of Paul. No more confusion and everything makes sense. Now I can hear the Messiah clearly and take His teachings and messages of warning very seriously, and of course at the same exact time be thankfull for Elohim's grace and mercy that allows me to be born again, because of the Lamb!
It's so good to be set free.
"Man will give an account for every idle word that he speaks"
and
"See I'm coming soon and my reward is with me, to repay ALL according to their DEEDS"
I didn't say those two quotes! That comes from God Himself.
When I first began to study Romans and some of Paul's other writings, I was very confused. But I kept at it, and now I understand. The thing that helped me a whole lot in the beginning was using the Simple English NT. It was written at a fifth or sixth grade level. After a while I was able to go to the ASV and KJV. It took a lot of desire to learn and perserverance to not give up. There are still a couple places I get stuck, but in time that'll come too. I love the gospels and reading the words that Jesus spoke, but I know that every word in the Bible is inspired and necessary for me to know as much as I possibly can. The thing to remember is that the apostles including Paul were ambassadors for Christ. They were His spokespersons. They were guided by the Holy Spirit in their writings, so it's not a good idea to discount any of their writings.
My post above was not off topic, but you ignored it. Are you sure you want to discuss the OP, or do you just want to teach others what you believe?
I'm beginning to think you just want to argue, not about anything in particular, just argue. I'm happy to debate the topic. I'm not willing to argue. I don't recall ignoring any post off yours. I believe I've addressed them all. If I missed something, let me know so I can address it. Thanks.
Are you agreeing or not? i really can't tell. I think you are, but i don't want to speak presumptuously. some of the things you say are kind of confusing.
for instance... Faith is not... I believe in the bible.
I have faith that the bible is God's word. I believe it is. it is an important part of my faith that the Bible is God's word. Its where all Christians should find their direction and authority.
i was not saying that faith is only believing in the bible.
i think what you are saying is in agreement with James 2.
am i correct?
Whatever is not of faith is sin. So before we start determining who has faith and who doesn't, let us see if WE are LIVING BY faith ourselves.Living by faith in what ? His grace towards us, this is what we are obedient to,the believer is obedient to living by faith in His life changing grace towards him.There's grace for every situation in our lives,and we are encouraged to approach the throne of grace in living faith to receive that grace for living. Now if this is what you believe, then we are in agreement.
You're right. Faith alone doesn't save. Faith plus works also doesn't save. Jesus saves. It is a complete work of God through Christ. Jesus didn't die that we might have the chance to make wise choices, but to be Savior of the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow
My post above was not off topic, but you ignored it. Are you sure you want to discuss the OP, or do you just want to teach others what you believe?
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl
I'm beginning to think you just want to argue, not about anything in particular, just argue. I'm happy to debate the topic. I'm not willing to argue. I don't recall ignoring any post off yours. I believe I've addressed them all. If I missed something, let me know so I can address it. Thanks.
Katie
I said "my post above" and copied the one you didn't address (posted again at the top). Don't worry about addressing it if you think it's off topic. I don't want to argue. I just happen to believe that neither faith or faith plus works is what gives us salvation, since both give credit to people rather than God. Christ died to save the world, not to give us an opportunity to make wise choices and be rewarded for them.
Well said Brian! It is impossiible to have a faith that doesn't manifest itself unless, of course, it is dead. To date, not one example of someone being saved by faith alone has been provided on this thread. That should cause people to rethink their position that faith alone saves if they are honest with themselves.
Well said Brian! It is impossiible to have a faith that doesn't manifest itself unless, of course, it is dead. To date, not one example of someone being saved by faith alone has been provided on this thread. That should cause people to rethink their position that faith alone saves if they are honest with themselves.
Katie
And you have not provided or defined what works along with faith are required or evident, if you are going to say obedience to his word,please be specific .
Did Jesus have faith in the Spirit alone; trusting in the Father, or in that of his own flesh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomtkirk
Why would Jesus need faith? HE IS God...
Are you serious with this question? or are you being whimsical? maybe whimsical is the wrong word... i'm still trying to figure out how you are going to apply human issues like faith to the Son of God.
"Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."
Okay... Either you guys are not talking about faith in the sense that jesus needs faith in the existence of God... Pretty clear and you are referring to faith in God to do what is expected... Okay I can accept that as faith. Seems like it's a lot of extra thought to come to that conclusion...
I mean, jesus is the son of God. He has in recent history in relation to the above passage told the disciples NUMEROUS times what was gonna happen according to his betrayal and death.
He had foreknowledge of what was gonna happen. As did the prophets. As did David when he wrote Psalms. If you want to say Jesus had faith in God... Sure, I can accept that. To a point.
Jesus knew what was gonna happen. he knew it had to happen. To fulfil prophecy. But as the hour was drawing closer, he didn't necessarily look forward to it. He knew God's will be done.
At
First I misunderstood what you guys were meaning by faith. The assurance of things hoped for. I tend to reason from the story tha he was not hoping it happened, but rather he knew it had to be done. According to the plan of salvation.
Is that what you guys are talking about. If not, I'm afraid you are gonna have to be more specific and quite some more scriptures.
Okay... Either you guys are not talking about faith in the sense that jesus needs faith in the existence of God... Pretty clear and you are referring to faith in God to do what is expected... Okay I can accept that as faith. Seems like it's a lot of extra thought to come to that conclusion...
I mean, jesus is the son of God. He has in recent history in relation to the above passage told the disciples NUMEROUS times what was gonna happen according to his betrayal and death.
He had foreknowledge of what was gonna happen. As did the prophets. As did David when he wrote Psalms. If you want to say Jesus had faith in God... Sure, I can accept that. To a point.
Jesus knew what was gonna happen. he knew it had to happen. To fulfil prophecy. But as the hour was drawing closer, he didn't necessarily look forward to it. He knew God's will be done.
First I misunderstood what you guys were meaning by faith. The assurance of things hoped for. I tend to reason from the story tha he was not hoping it happened, but rather he knew it had to be done. According to the plan of salvation.
Is that what you guys are talking about. If not, I'm afraid you are gonna have to be more specific and quite some more scriptures.
Actually Atom it is yo that needs to be more specific in defining what faith and works are, saying obedient to what you believe the bible says is not faith, can you for instance share what are the works that follow faith, not just in believing but in daily living.So please be more specific than saying obedience to Gods word,otherwise you will leave me with no alternative but to believe all you are doing is defending some head knowledge doctrine.
I read it when you first posted it Finn. I also read it from the website you copied it from. The scriptures tell us we are saved through faith. Not one says by faith alone. Eph. 2:8 tells us we are saved "apart from works." What works? God's works? Are those included Finn?
Post #7 proves nothing. It tells us what we all know and agree with. We are saved by grace through faith.
If man is saved by "faith alone" and doesn't have to act on it, then prove it by example. Anyone can give their interpretation of what scriptures mean, but it's a lot more difficult to prove it by example. In the case of "faith alone," it is impossible. Faith alone is an unBiblical term, which has been added to the word of God.
Katie
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