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On the day of Pentecost, men from every nation, thousands of them, HEARD Peter's command, "Let each one of you repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Peter DID command every single person present to be baptized. Because of the Holy Spirit EVERY person HEARD in their own language.
The primary purpose of baptism is forgiveness of sins, not a public declaration. The scriptures never say the purpose of baptism is for public testimony.
You being a pastor, I don't need to post Romans 6:3-7 or Colossians 2:11-14 for you. You already know what they say. Baptism is the point in time when the believer is set free from sin.
With all due respect,
Katie
You are teaching a false doctrine of salvation by faith plus water baptism and therefore rejecting the Biblical revelation that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone.
Those who think that water baptism is necessary for salvation are not even saved because they have not understood that salvation is offered only as a free gift and have attempted to work for it by engaging in a ritual.
You are teaching a false doctrine of salvation by faith plus water baptism and therefore rejecting the Biblical revelation that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone.
Those who think that water baptism is necessary for salvation are not even saved because they have not understood that salvation is offered only as a free gift and have attempted to work for it by engaging in a ritual.
Acts 2:38 needs no explaining. It is simple andstraightforward. Even third graders can understand it.
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
What's to not understand?
Jesus commanded baptism, my friend. That in itself is enough reason to believe it is necessary for salvation. I will let you debate this with Jesus. I will let you tell Him how it wasn't necessary to do everything He commanded.
Are you playing God now Mike? Telling people that if they believe they need to obey the command of Jesus to be baptized, they are lost? Wow, you've really overstepped your boundary here, haven't you? Are you the new judge? Last time I checked Jesus said He would judge us by His word. And last time I checked, He commanded baptism. That is His word.
Do you know that every single christian in the Bible was baptized? Must be because they thought it was necessary, eh?
No matter what you say Mike, I will never believe that baptism isn't necessary for salvation. Might as well just give it up and ignore me because you can't change the truth that I so strongly believe in.
I wish you well, and I pray for you every day. I'll try to stay off your thread. I don't want to aggravate you more than I already have.
Acts 2:38 needs no explaining. It is simple andstraightforward. Even third graders can understand it.
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
What's to not understand?
Jesus commanded baptism, my friend. That in itself is enough reason to believe it is necessary for salvation. I will let you debate this with Jesus. I will let you tell Him how it wasn't necessary to do everything He commanded.
Are you playing God now Mike? Telling people that if they believe they need to obey the command of Jesus to be baptized, they are lost? Wow, you've really overstepped your boundary here, haven't you? Are you the new judge? Last time I checked Jesus said He would judge us by His word. And last time I checked, He commanded baptism. That is His word.
Do you know that every single christian in the Bible was baptized? Must be because they thought it was necessary, eh?
No matter what you say Mike, I will never believe that baptism isn't necessary for salvation. Might as well just give it up and ignore me because you can't change the truth that I so strongly believe in.
I wish you well, and I pray for you every day. I'll try to stay off your thread. I don't want to aggravate you more than I already have.
Blessings,
Katie
Being baptised after having been saved through faith alone in Christ alone is one thing. Being baptized in the belief that it is necessary for salvation is adding works to faith and results in not being saved.
This is for those who will listen. For those who will not listen and add works (including water baptism) to faith in order to be saved, they remain under condemnation.
And thanks be to God Mike is not our judge. Jesus is, and He said His word would judge us. And Jesus commanded baptism. No need to worry if we follow what Jesus commanded us to do.
Acts 2:38 needs no explaining. It is simple andstraightforward. Even third graders can understand it.
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
What's to not understand?
Jesus commanded baptism, my friend. That in itself is enough reason to believe it is necessary for salvation. I will let you debate this with Jesus. I will let you tell Him how it wasn't necessary to do everything He commanded.
Are you playing God now Mike? Telling people that if they believe they need to obey the command of Jesus to be baptized, they are lost? Wow, you've really overstepped your boundary here, haven't you? Are you the new judge? Last time I checked Jesus said He would judge us by His word. And last time I checked, He commanded baptism. That is His word.
Do you know that every single christian in the Bible was baptized? Must be because they thought it was necessary, eh?
No matter what you say Mike, I will never believe that baptism isn't necessary for salvation. Might as well just give it up and ignore me because you can't change the truth that I so strongly believe in.
I wish you well, and I pray for you every day. I'll try to stay off your thread. I don't want to aggravate you more than I already have.
Blessings,
Katie
"BROTHERS WHAT SHALL WE DOOOO ABOUT THE SIN OF CRUCIFYING THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF THE LIVING GOD!!!!!!!!?"
REPENT of it.
People who do not understand what James meant when he talked about faith and works in James chapter 2, think that he contradicted what Paul said concerning those things. Legalists like to use James to promote works based salvation.
Paul taught that eternal salvation is through faith alone in Christ alone. The way he showed this is by contrasting faith and works.
Ephesians 2:8 'For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, that no one should boast. 10] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Paul made it clear that eternal salvation is through faith alone, and not by works. He then said that the believer should produce good works. The works follow salvation through faith in Christ. The works of an unbeliever are rejected by God because they are the product of human righteousness which God must always reject. God also must reject as 'wood, hay, and stubble' (1 Cor 3:12-15) the works of a believer who is out of fellowship through sin because they also are the product of human righteousness. The only works that God can accept are the works of a believer who is in fellowship - that is, under the control of God the Holy Spirit instead of under the control of the old sin nature. Therefore, adding any works to faith in the belief that you must do something in addition to simply placing your faith in Christ is not only meaningless, but since you have added something to faith alone, you are not even saved. Salvation is offered only as a free gift which is taken possession of though simply trusting in Christ for salvation.
Paul said the following concerning Abrahams justification.
Romans 4:2 'For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. 3] For what does the Scripture say? ''And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'' 4] 'Now to him who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. 5] But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness, 6] just as David who speaks of the blessing upon the man to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works;
Abraham is given as an example of someone who was justified, and therefore eternally saved as a result of faith alone. Now many years later, when Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son, he showed though that work that his faith had matured. But he had long since been eternally saved through simply believing God.
Previewing what James said, what example did he give for works? Providing food and clothing for someone in need (James 2:15). Was James saying that your eternal salvation depends on providing for the needs of someone who is lacking in something? He was not!!! Providing for someones needs is a good thing, but it is works, and as Paul has already shown, eternal salvation is through faith apart from works.
Well, you will perhaps say that Paul was talking about works of men as opposed to works of God. That he was referring to meritorious works as opposed to non-meritorious works. And this is true. But notice what Jesus Himself said about the work (notice that that is singular, not plural) of God. In John 6:28 after hearing Jesus talking about working for the food which endures to eternal life, the people to whom He was speaking asked Him what the works of God were that they might do them.
John 6:28 'They said therefore to Him, ''What shall we do, that we may work the works (erga - Plural) of God?'' 29] Jesus answered and said to them, ''This is the work (ergon - Singular ) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.''
The people understood that God had a requirement for them. They would do those requirements of God if Jesus would tell them what they were. They thought that they could please God and earn eternal life by doing good works. Romans 10:2 'For I (Paul) bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3] For not knowing about God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themsleves to the righteousness of God. 4] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
But Jesus corrected their assumption. In responding to the question, Jesus said that they could not please God and earn eternal life by performing good works (Eph 2:8-9, Titus 3:5). Jesus said that there is only one work of God. One thing that God requires for eternal salvation. They (and we) need to put our trust in the One who the Father has sent. Jesus made it clear that the one requirement for eternal salvation is to believe in Him. God requires that man understands that because of sin, he cannot save hmself. Romans 6:23 'For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jesus said that there was one non-meritorious work of God by which man might be saved. Through faith in Christ. One work of God excludes anything added to faith alone in Christ alone. Water baptism is not a work of God because the one work of God is said to be belief. By that same token, nothing else which anyone would call a work of God is a work of God. The only work of God which a person must do is to believe in Jesus Christ. And believing means believing.
So what was James referring to in James chapter 2?
Two things must be understood when reading James concerning faith.
1) James was addressing believers. He was writing to those who were already saved.
2) Salvation does not always refer to eternal salvation, but can refer to being saved or delivered from a fruitless, non-productive spiritual life after having been eternally saved. It can refer to being saved from divine discipline. It can refer to being saved from loss of eternal rewards. James 2:14 speaks of "profit" - ophelos. Profit is something which is earned-something that is deserved. Salvation cannot be earned and is not deserved. In I Timothy 4:8 Paul also speaks of profit - ophelimos (a related word to ophelos) where he refers to reward. ''for bodily discipline is only of little profit (ophelimos), but godliness is profitable for all thngs, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.''
Whereas Paul was referring to being justified before God through faith alone in Christ alone, James was referring to the believer being justified before men by his works. God sees the heart and does not need to see overt works to see their faith. But people can only see your faith by your works. As was shown above, the example of faith that James gave was about providing clothes and daily food to those in need (James 2:15). Exactly the kind of works that both Jesus and Paul said could not result in eternal life.
If someone claims to have faith, that faith can only be seen by expressing it in their works. James 2:18 'But someone may well say, ''You have faith, and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.'' Faith without works results in a non-productive spiritual life which has no impact on others. In that sense it is a dead faith. A believer without works is eternally saved, but his spiritual life is non-productive and useless. James is saying that in order to have an effective spiritual life, one which has an impact on others, faith must be demonstrated by spiritual productions - works.
Dr. C.I. Scofield wrote...'Thus in their views of justifcation Paul and James complement one another (2:23); Paul stresses acceptance with God wholly by grace through faith, whereas James presents the continual evidence before men of the initial transaction. For the definitive N.T. statement on faith and works in which both views are brought together, see Eph.2:8-10.
New Scofield Reference Edition, p.1329, partial footnote for James 2:26.'
Paul and James do not contradict each other, and they do not contradict Jesus Christ. Eternal salvation is through faith alone in Christ alone.
The principle of legalism always attacks the principle of grace.
The apostle Paul is not an endorser of the [faith alone in Christ alone] false concept of salvation and he said so.
"It is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13
The apostle Paul is not an endorser of the [faith alone in Christ alone] false concept of salvation and he said so.
"It is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13
You have been shown twice now that Rom 2:13 doesn't mean what you think it means. As I told you in post #439 of the following thread ---> Is Baptism Necessary For Salvation
You constantly quote Romans 2:13 as a requirement to be justified despite the fact that I explained to you that that verse is hypothetical. Paul stated in Romans 3:20 that NO ONE is justified by the works of the law.
Hypothetical: Romans 2:13 'For not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justifed.'
Reality: Romans 3:20 'Because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Further reality: Romans 4:2 'For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. 3] For what does the Scripture say? ''And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'' 4] Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. 5] But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.
Paul wrote Romans to show that justification is through faith and not by works of the Law.
You are guilty of doing what so many people do. You refuse to understand a verse within its context and thus interpret it wrong.
Paul was showing that no one can keep the law and therefore no one can be justified by the law.
Paul did indeed teach that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone.
You have been shown twice now that Rom 2:13 doesn't mean what you think it means. As I told you in post #439 of the following thread ---> Is Baptism Necessary For Salvation
You constantly quote Romans 2:13 as a requirement to be justified despite the fact that I explained to you that that verse is hypothetical. Paul stated in Romans 3:20 that NO ONE is justified by the works of the law.
Hypothetical: Romans 2:13 'For not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justifed.'
Reality: Romans 3:20 'Because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Further reality: Romans 4:2 'For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. 3] For what does the Scripture say? ''And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'' 4] Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. 5] But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.
Paul wrote Romans to show that justification is through faith and not by works of the Law.
You are guilty of doing what so many people do. You refuse to understand a verse within its context and thus interpret it wrong
Paul was showing that no one can keep the law and therefore no one can be justified by the law.
Paul did indeed teach that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone.
And I've told your tangled head more times than I am aware of that the word law in Rom. 2:13 is not referring to the OT written code nor is it a hypothetical statement. A change of the law was made because of the priesthood having been changed. That boy is a fact and so is Rom. 2:13 a fact. No preacher even if he has been ordained ten thousand times will ever ride into God's kingdom on the back of his only begotten son's murder thinking it is a direct positive benefit for his worthless hide. For the man who has obeyed God by the faith of using the Way that has been perfected by Jesus' crucifixion is taught by God how things are fitted together in Christ. YOU! Are not in the remotest sense one of these men. True even if one does keep the law of Moses he most certinally will not be declared righteous by God. But God has sent a man who is much greater than Moses and is a LAWGIVER by the authoirity God gave to him did indeed make an addititon to the law so that whosoever has the faith to obey God by that law will be declared righteous by God. But for the fool who does not and preaches otherwise he will pay hell for slandering the life giving clestial being who is convicting the world of guilt in regard to the sin of crucifying the Lord's body.
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