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Justice is justice as long as it is rendered fairly by the Judge.
We reap what we sow. How can we sow an eternal consequence in a finite life?
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God is never indifferent or egotistical. He does get angry, but He does not sin.
I tire of the psychological ignorance that refuses to understand that ALL the negative human emotions of anger, vengeance, hate, envy, etc. are the result of our human weaknesses. God has no such weaknesses . . . hence God has NONE of the human negative emotions, period!!! (We have a pitiful education system in this country.)
The question is whether the "torment" as you put it, is warranted. Is it torment to lock a murderer up for life? Perhaps...but it's justified.
Likewise, due to the infinite nature of God, whom our sin is against, He is justified in casting us into Hell for eternity.
It also says he IS just. And he IS Holy.
And in fact, God's holiness is spoken of more often in the Bible than His love is. God's love motivated Him to provide the means of salvation, but it is God's Justice which actually made salvation possible. And it is that same Justice which must leave in eternal condemnation those who die never having believed in Christ.
Why would you think it is holy and just to let someone you love be tormented for eternity?
#1 - We are talking about God, and not me. Like I said before, God is different than anyone we have seen or experienced. His ways are not our ways.
#2 - Why would God let people be tormented? According to Romans 9, he uses the vessels of wrath (those destined for destruction) as object lessons for His vessels of mercy (His children by faith). In other words, those whom God has chosen will look upon the wrath and power of God on vessels of wrath - and will recognize the riches and glory of being with the Father - and He will be worshipped for who He is. They will be thankful that God did not make them a vessel of wrath.
God has chosen some as vessels of wrath and others as vessels of mercy. Nothing you or I can do about it.
I can just about guarantee you that if you get to heaven, and you are with God and you see what's happening to the vessels of wrath - you will not turn up your nose at God. You will be thankful - you will be on your knees praising God for allowing you to be where you are.
Okay folks, thread is re-opened. However, if June so much as sees a hint of denominational bashing the thread will be closed, and infractions issued. Okay?
Actually you must have misread my post. Let me clarify.
The bible says god is love.(agree?) God is just (agree?). Love is just (agree?). God is holy (agree?). Love is holy (agree?). Torment by it's very definition cannot be love, nor then is it just or holy. Whoever is doing the tormenting cannot be love.
Therefore, one can conclude that either god is not love or god is a hypocrite, or the torment is a harsh word for tough-love and the manner of torment is not eternal and IS corrective (no actual flames, spiritual).
Agree?
Does it really say that God is going to put you in hell? Show me.
Maybe, and I am not sure,because after all , who could second guess God.
What if mankind is on a couse to hell and God is just trying to show us how to get off of that road. Maybe man put man on the course to hell. Maybe God is doing all he can to show us how to get off of that road.
again.. MAYBE?
We reap what we sow. How can we sow an eternal consequence in a finite life?I tire of the psychological ignorance that refuses to understand that ALL the negative human emotions of anger, vengeance, hate, envy, etc. are the result of our human weaknesses. God has no such weaknesses . . . hence God has NONE of the human negative emotions, period!!! (We have a pitiful education system in this country.)
Sin, mystic...sin, not simply human weakness.
I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Romans 7:18
We do reap what we sow...
The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Galatians 6:18
And in fact, God's holiness is spoken of more often in the Bible than His love is. God's love motivated Him to provide the means of salvation, but it is God's Justice which actually made salvation possible. And it is that same Justice which must leave in eternal condemnation those who die never having believed in Christ.
The number of times something is mentioned in the bible does not negate one scripture. If the bible says the greatest of something is LOVE, then it need only say it once.
Does it really say that God is going to put you in hell? Show me.
Maybe, and I am not sure,because after all , who could second guess God.
What if mankind is on a couse to hell and God is just trying to show us how to get off of that road. Maybe man put man on the course to hell. Maybe God is doing all he can to show us how to get off of that road.
again.. MAYBE?
I'll agree to a maybe... But of course that would mean man is more powerful than god when it comes to hell.
As for showing you where it says god puts people in hell... I'm not sure what you mean. I'm assuming god makes the rules and consequences.
#1 - We are talking about God, and not me. Like I said before, God is different than anyone we have seen or experienced. His ways are not our ways.
DRob4JC, you raised the OP, so I asked you a question about what you thought it meant. Saying "His ways are not our ways" means nothing, for we should interpret that His ways are better than our ways.
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#2 - Why would God let people be tormented? According to Romans 9, he uses the vessels of wrath (those destined for destruction) as object lessons for His vessels of mercy (His children by faith).
Letting people be tormented for a finite amount of time, even a lifetime, is infinitely different that letting someone be tormented for infinity, with no reprieve, ever.
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In other words, those whom God has chosen will look upon the wrath and power of God on vessels of wrath - and will recognize the riches and glory of being with the Father - and He will be worshipped for who He is. They will be thankful that God did not make them a vessel of wrath.
God has chosen some as vessels of wrath and others as vessels of mercy. Nothing you or I can do about it.
I can just about guarantee you that if you get to heaven, and you are with God and you see what's happening to the vessels of wrath - you will not turn up your nose at God. You will be thankful - you will be on your knees praising God for allowing you to be where you are.
What you described above is the mob boss who takes pity on you while he shows you everyone else that he is letting be tortured forever. Doesn't sound like heaven to me.
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Early on warning...
