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Hi Mike, finally I'm back.
Was not doing so good.
But am much better to day, thanks.
And Praise God.
Yes I do consider those scriptures as well.
Jesus being 'The Lamb 0f God' for 'The New Covenant'.
As, Jesus fulfilling The Law; did not become 'The Law'.
If Jesus were the passover lamb?
He would've become that which He fulfilled.
He would've become The Law.
He didn't come to give 'the Jews' a new passover lamb.
If He had, we'd be eating 'the passover lamb' as His body.
And still putting the blood of 'the passover lamb'
on our doors as His blood.
Jesus is not The Law 0f God, but 'The Word 0f God'.
Notice Ps.34:20
'he keeps all his bones, not one of them is broken'
This scripture being fulfilled says nothing of 'the passover lamb'.
In fulling 'the scriptures' and 'The Law'.
As Paul spoke of "Christ our Passover' ? - 1Cor.5:6,7
It the context of them being "Unleavened" as in Bread.
Paul did not speak as "Christ our Passover" as in a lamb.
The Passover was The Feast 0f Unleaven Bread too you know.
No one ever said Christ was The Passover Lamb.
This is just another false doctrine made up of 'Messianic Myths'.
The next day John [the Baptist] saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)
17Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear. 18For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 21Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. (1 Peter 1)
No. It assumes that scripture is divinely inspired.
"Hence, because the Holy Ghost employed men as His instruments, we cannot therefore say that it was these inspired instruments who, perchance, have fallen into error, and not the primary author. For, by supernatural power, He so moved and impelled them to write-He was so present to them-that the things which He ordered, and those only, they, first, rightly understood, then willed faithfully to write down, and finally expressed in apt words and with infallible truth." (Providentissimus)
There wouldn't be different versions of inspired writings. Especially, there were not be contractory versions of inspired wrirings.
Yeah but I dont believe that. If what you say is true there would be only ONE kind of Christian. Instead there are 50,000+
Why is YOUR interpretation more authoritative of anyone else's?
It gets down to human behavior, IMHO. It is the MESSAGE of JESUS that matters. NOT that all gospels agree that He was crucified on one day or another. Or any other point irrelevant to the original message. Eternal life! and what must be done to attain it!
Hi Mike, finally I'm back.
Was not doing so good.
But am much better to day, thanks.
And Praise God.
Yes I do consider those scriptures as well.
Jesus being 'The Lamb 0f God' for 'The New Covenant'.
As, Jesus fulfilling The Law; did not become 'The Law'.
If Jesus were the passover lamb?
He would've become that which He fulfilled.
He would've become The Law.
He didn't come to give 'the Jews' a new passover lamb.
If He had, we'd be eating 'the passover lamb' as His body.
And still putting the blood of 'the passover lamb'
on our doors as His blood.
Jesus is not The Law 0f God, but 'The Word 0f God'.
Notice Ps.34:20
'he keeps all his bones, not one of them is broken'
This scripture being fulfilled says nothing of 'the passover lamb'.
In fulling 'the scriptures' and 'The Law'.
As Paul spoke of "Christ our Passover' ? - 1Cor.5:6,7
It the context of them being "Unleavened" as in Bread.
Paul did not speak as "Christ our Passover" as in a lamb.
The Passover was The Feast 0f Unleaven Bread too you know.
No one ever said Christ was The Passover Lamb.
This is just another false doctrine made up of 'Messianic Myths'.
This is why John's Gospel is different from the others.
He believed that Jesus was the Passover Lamb - it's very specific in the Gospel of John, and the imagery is constantly used. It's a very Johanine and metaphyisical way of looking at Jesus, but that's how he is presented in the Gospel. I would be wary of using that particular Psalm to bolster your argument, however - you would have to use the rest of the Psalm's imagery and attempt to apply that to Jesus, as well - and that just doesn't work.
The other Gospels had different ideas of what Jesus represented, how one attained to the Kingdom, what the Kingdom was, whether it was the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew's aversion to using "God" possibly, as one writing to Jews?) etc.. This is one of the important aspects of the Gospels - despite what Fundamentalists will claim, each Gospel writer had his own unique view of Christ and his importance. I could give endless examples, but this is all basic information found in most any Bible with an introuduction to each book. I don't say that to be dismissive, just to save time.
Do you really believe that the details on how to smash babies heads with rocks or to cut open pregnant women's bellies when you kill them (and such) is vital detail and part of God's great plan???
Mystic, it is and was God's plan, from the beginning, that His ppl would be faithful to Him. But they weren't were they? And evil befell them. Was that God's fault? No. They had been warned; knew the consequenses of disobedience [written in the Word]. Should then God sugarcoat the truth of what their enemies would do to them? IF so why?
The Scriptures are written as ensamples/examples for us to learn from. IF God sugarcoats the truth, will we learn any thing from that? I think not.....
The next day John [the Baptist] saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)
17Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear. 18For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 21Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. (1 Peter 1)
~ "The Lamb 0f God" does not mean 'passover lamb'.
If it did, you could quote Scripture of it.
'the passover lamb' did not take away the sin of the Jews.
"The Lamb 0f God" takes away the sin of the world = New Deal.
Not the same Meal.
Yeah but I dont believe that. If what you say is true there would be only ONE kind of Christian. Instead there are 50,000+
Why is YOUR interpretation more authoritative of anyone else's?
It gets down to human behavior, IMHO. It is the MESSAGE of JESUS that matters. NOT that all gospels agree that He was crucified on one day or another. Or any other point irrelevant to the original message. Eternal life! and what must be done to attain it!
RESPONSE:
You are confusing the Christ of faith and the Jesus of history. We don't really know what Jesus himself taught. We only have a general idea.
Excerpted from A Concise History of the Catholic ChurchBy Father Thomas Bokenkotter, SS
"They (The gospel writers) readily included material drawn from the Christian communities' experience of the risen Jesus. Words, for instance, were put in the mouth of Jesus and stories were told about him which, though not historical in the strict sense, nevertheless, in the minds of the evangelists, fittingly expressed the real meaning and intent of Jesus as faith had come to perceive him. For this reason, scholars have come to make a distinction between the Jesus of history and the Christ of faith.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 02-22-2012 at 08:13 PM..
Reason: removed brackets
I have already said all of the above. The first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread occurred on Nisan 15 and was a Sabbath. This followed Passover day which was on Nisan 14.
Passover day which was on Nisan 14 was a preparation day for the Sabbath which was the first day of the seven day Feast of Unleavened Bread which lasted from Nisan 15 to Nisan 21. That has already been established.
I have also said that the Jewish day was from sunset to sunset.
I have stated twice on this thread that I do not believe that Jesus was crucified on Friday. He was indeed crucified on Wednesday. But I did not bring it up because my point was not to show whether Jesus was crucified on Wed, Thur, or Fri, but to make it clear that that all four gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on the same day. To make it clear that John does not say that Jesus was crucified on a different day then what the other Gospels say.
Jesus actually would have risen anytime after sunset on Saturday, which would be Sunday by Jewish reckoning. Since the Jewish counting of partial days as complete days doesn't apply here, Jesus' rising after sunset does not violate the sign of Jonah which specifies 3 days and 3 nights.
If Gentile reckoning is also taken into consideration, then Jesus could have risen sometime after midnight, making His resurrection on Sunday by both Jewish and Gentile reckoning. The Gospel of John used the Gentile reckoning of time as opposed to the other three Gospels use of the Jewish reckoning of time.
No. The preparation day (John 19:31) refers to preparing for the Sabbath on Nisan 15. Not to the Passover which was on Nisan 14. Nisan 14 WAS the preparation day for the Sabbath which was the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread beginning on Nisan 15.
John 19:31 'The Jews therefore, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day) asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
Look at what John 19:31 is saying. The Sabbath being spoken of is the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread which took place on Nisan 15. That is the day after Nisan 14 which is Passover. The day on which Christ was crucified. Nisan 14 began at sunset the evening before, and at which time Jesus ate the Passover meal. His betrayal by Judas, His arrest and trials took place during the night after He had eaten the Passover meal. Then around 6 A.M. Jesus was led out to Golgotha where He was crucified at 9 A.M.
Since the Jewish day is from sunset to sunset, and a new day begins when the sun has set, that means by Jewish reckoning, each new day begins with the evening. This is seen in Genesis where it is says 'And there was evening and there was morning, one day.' 'And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.' Also, Leviticus 23:32 with reference to the day of Atonment, mentions keeping a Sabbath from evening to evening.
Now, all four Gospels show that Jesus ate His Passover meal sometime after the sun set on Nisan 13, starting the beginning of Nisan 14.
Matthew 26:17 'Now on the first day (day isn't in the original) of Unleavened Bread (and here it is necessary to say once again, that in a popular sense, Nisan 14 - Passover day itself, was often referred to as the first day of Unleavened Bread, even though in the strict sense, the first day of Unleavened Bread began on Nisan 15, the day after Passover proper), the disciples came to Jesus, saying, ''Where do you want to eat the Passover?''
Starting with Matthew 26:20 the events mentioned include the Passover meal, Jesus' going to the Garden of Gethsemane, His betrayal, His arrest and trials, His crucifixion, death, burial, and resurrection.
In John, starting with chapter 13, the passover meal, His going to the garden of Gethsemane ( John 18:1) (refer to post #33), His betrayal, arrest, trials, crucifixion, death, burial, and resurrection are all mentioned.
After having eaten His Passover meal the evening before, at the beginning of Nisan 14, Jesus was arrested and tried. Then the next morning, still Nisan 14, at 9 A.M., Jesus was put on the cross where He remained until 3 P.M., the time of His death.
I want to repost post #33 which shows that all four Gospels show that Jesus ate the Passover meal the night before He was crucified. But both events took place on Nisan 14 - Passover day, as opposed to Passover week which involved the Seven day Feast of Unleavened Bread.
All four gospels mention the Passover dinner. Matthew, Mark, and Luke give details about the passover meal that John doesn't, and John gives details about the Passover meal that the others don't.
The Passover meal is mentioned in John 13. A common detail in all four gospels concerning the Passover meal is the mention by Jesus that He would be betrayed by one sitting with Him at the meal.
Matthew 26:19 And the disciples did as Jesus had directed them; and they prepared the Passover. 20] 'Now when evening had come, He was reclining at the table with the twelve disciples. 21] And as they were eating, He said, ''Truly I say to you that one of you will betray Me.'' 22] And being deeply grieved, they each one began to say to Him, ''Surely not I, Lord?'' 23] And He answered and said, ''He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me.
Mark 14:17 ''And when it was evening He came with the twelve. 18] And as they were reclining at the table and eating, Jesus said, ''Truly I say to you that one of you will betray Me--one who is eaing with Me.'' 19] ''They began to be grieved and to say to Him one by one, ''Surely not I?'' 20] And He said to them, ''It is one of the twelve, one who dips with Me in the bowl.
Luke 22: 'And when the hour had come He reclined at the table and the apostles with Him ... 21] ''But behold, the hand of the one betraying Me is with Me on the table.
John 13:1 'Now before the Feast of the Passover, Jesus knowing that His hour had come that He should depart out of this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end. 2] And during supper, the devil having already put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Him, ...21] ''When Jesus had said this, He became troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, ''Truly, truly, I say to you, that one of you will betray Me . 23] There was reclining on Jesus' breast one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved. 24] Simon Peter therefore gestured to him, and said to him, ''Tell us who it is of whom He is speaking.'' 25] He, leaning back thus on Jesus' breast, said to Him, ''Lord, who is it?'' 26] Jesus therefore answered, ''That is the one for whom I shall dip the morsel and give it to him.'' So when He had dipped the morsel, He took and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. 27] And after the morsel, Satan entered into him. Jesus therefore said to him, ''What you must do, do quickly.
Again, the synoptic Gospels have details concerning the Passover meal that John's Gospel doesn't include. And John's Gospel has many details that the synoptic Gospels don't.
All four Gospels as shown above agree that Jesus ate the Passover meal the night before He was crucified, but still on Nisan 14. Additionally all four Gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on Passover (see posts #1 and 21).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior
RESPONSE:
Not true.
As you have just admitted:
>>Again, the synoptic Gospels have details concerning the Passover meal that John's Gospel doesn't include. And John's Gospel has many details that the synoptic Gospels don't.<<
So:
The Story Of The Storytellers - The Gospel Of John | From Jesus To Christ | FRONTLINE | PBS "Whereas in the three synoptic gospels Jesus actually eats a passover meal before he dies, in John's gospel he doesn't. The last supper is actually eaten before the beginning of passover. So that the sequence of events leading up to the actual crucifixion are very different for John's gospel. And one has to look at it in say, why is the story so different? How do we account for these differences in terms of the way the story-telling developed? And the answer becomes fairly clear when we realize that Jesus has had the last supper a day before so that he's hanging on the cross during the day of preparation before the beginning of Passover."
CH
I did not admit anything. I made a true statement and presented the appropriate Scripture (shown above) that shows that all four gospels mention Jesus eating the Passover meal the evening before He was crucified.
All four gospels mention the Passover dinner.
The Passover meal is mentioned in John 13. A common detail in all four gospels concerning the Passover meal is the mention by Jesus that He would be betrayed by one sitting with Him at the meal. (Matthew 26:21-24; Mark 14:18-21; Luke 22:21-22; John 13:21-27). Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper at the Passover meal (Matthew 26:20-29)
Matthew, Mark, and Luke give details about the passover meal that John doesn't, and John gives details about the Passover meal that the others don't.
You claim that because each Gospel has details that aren't in the other gospels that that means contradiction. It does not. It means that all four gospels complement each other. If all four gospels were meant to be cookie cutter cutout copies, there would have been no need for four different gospels.
To clarify what it is saying - they all agree that he died on a Friday. They do not agree whether the Friday was Passover or the Day of Preparation for the Passover or the Day of Preparation for the Sabbath. They do agree on one thing: he died on a Friday, no matter what holy day that happened to be that year.
As shown in post #21, all four gospels show that Jesus was crucified on Passover day. I'll repeat it here.
Matthew 27:57 'When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus. 58] This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus....62] Now on the next day, which is the one after the preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered together with Pilate 63] and said, ''Sir, we remember that when He was still alive that deceiver said, 'After three days I am to rise again.' I know the word Sabbath isn't mentioned here, but this passage is in agreement with the other passages.
Mark 15:42 'When evening had already come, because it was the preparation day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, 43] Joseph of Arimathea came, a prominent member of the Council, who himself was waiting for the kingdom of God; and he gathered up courage and went in before Pilate, and asked for the body of Jesus.
Luke 23:54 'It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin. 55] Now the women who had come with Him out of Galilee followed, and saw the tomb and how His body was laid. 56] Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.
John 19:31 'Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
All four gospels show that Jesus was crucified and died on the preparation day before the Sabbath. That's a fixed point.
John 19:14 however, says something a little different.
John 19:14 'Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover (Week); it was about the sixth hour. And he (Pilate) said to the Jews, ''Behold your king!"
John did not contradict Matthew, Mark or Luke. And he didn't contradict himself. (John 19:4 contrasted with John 19:31. Sabbath or Passover?)
Now the following is what I want to draw the readers attention to.
In John 19:31, John refers to the day of preparation before the Sabbath. That Sabbath is a special Sabbath because it is the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread which is on Nisan 15, the day after Passover on which day Christ was crucified which was Nisan 14.
Now in John 19:14, John had called it the day of preparation for the Passover. But both John 19:14 and John 19:31 are covering the same day. In John 19:14 Jesus is about to be crucified. It is 6 A.M. Jesus was put on the cross at 9 A.M.
In John 19:31 John calls it the day of preparation for the Sabbath, and Jesus has already died (John 19:33).
Both references are to the same day. John 19:14 is the morning of Nisan 14, and John 19:31 is around 3 P.M. in the afternoon of Nisan 14. The same day. The day of Passover proper. The day of Jesus' crucifixion.
All of the events in John chapter 19 are taking place on the same day. And in that chapter, John has referred to the day of preparation as the day before the Passover, and as the day before the Sabbath. But both references concern the same day. And the day of preparation for the Passover is Nisan 14 in which the Jews had to prepare for the feast of Unleavened Bread which began on Nisan 15 and continued to Nisan 21.
And all four Gospels have stated quite clearly that Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation for the Sabbath - The first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread - Nisan 15. Jesus was crucified on Nisan 14, the day before.
The Gospel of John is in agreement with the synoptic Gospels that Jesus Christ was crucified on Passover day which was on Nisan 14.
In saying that it was the preparation day for the Sabbath(John 19:31), the Gospel of John agrees with the other gospels which also say it was the preparation day for the Sabbath. In John 19:14, John calls that very same day, the day of preparation for the Passover.
Since all four gospels agree that it was the day of preparation for the Sabbath, and since John calls that very same day the day of preparation for the Passover, it means that John agrees with the other three Gospels that it was the preparation day for the Passover.
Now what does the day of preparation for the Passover mean? I have explained that already and will explain it again.NOW READ THE FOLLOWING CAREFULLY!!!
Jesus was crucified on Passover - the 14th day of the month of Nisan. That day was called Passover. BUT following the day of Passover, there was a seven day Feast of Unleavened Bread which in popular usage was called Passover week. This seven day Passover week was from the 14th day to the 21st day of the month.
John 19:14, 'Now it (Passover day itself - Nisan 14) was the day of preparation for the Passover (Passover Week); it was about the sixth hour...'
John said that Passover day was itself the day of preparation for Passover Week which began the very next day after Passover day - the day that Jesus was crucified.
And recognizing that, the translators of The New International Version, 1984 Edition have translated it as 'Passover Week' instead of just Passover.
John 19:14 'It was the day of Preparation of Passover Week, about the sixth hour. "Here is your king," Pilate said to the Jews.[New International Version, 1984 Edition]
Now the Greek of John 19:14 doesn't say 'day' or 'week.' It simply says 'Passover.' Again, in popular usage, the Jews referred to the seven day Feast of Unleavened Bread as Passover Week. And the NIV 1984 Edition recognizes that fact, as does the 'NIRV' and 'NCV', translations. READ THE ABOVE CAREFULLY!!!
Quote:
In all fairness, you (as my previous post shows), have said two things:
1- Jesus died on Passover
2- Jesus died on the Day of Preparation for the Passover.
It's all in the post in which I quote you from the other thread.
And as has already been explained, I again explained it immediately above.
Quote:
You claim that "I have said all along that all four Gospels are in agreements that Jesus was crucified on the same day". You need to be more specific, or edit your posts.
No, I did not. Here is what I said in Post #40. 'That commentary you provided states right at the beginning that all four gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on the same day, but which according to them was on a Friday.
That agrees with what I've been saying on this thread (except that I disagree that Jesus was crucified on a Friday), and which you deny. You have said that the Gospel of Mark shows Jesus being crucified on Passover while John has Him being crucified a day earlier. I have said all along that all four Gospels are in agreement that Jesus was crucified on the same day.'
'One very important discrepancy that affects theological meaning is the date of Jesus' death, of which both Mark and John give explicit indications of when this death occured, but both are contradictory. Now - how does this affect theology? Well, it definately affects the theology that Jesus was the Passover Lamb. On the day before passover, the lamb is traditionally slaughtered and prepared to be consumed on the next day: Passover. Keep in mind that a jewish day begins at nightfall.
In Mark - Jesus celebrates Passover (the day after the preparation of the lamb - "The Day of Preparation") at the Last Supper (after nightfall), goes to the Garden, is arrested and is then executed on the same Jewish day (early morning for non-jews). He dies at 9 o'clock in the non-jewish morning, but on the same day as Passover. (Mark 15:25)
In John - there is a meal, but there is no indication that it is the Passover meal, Jesus is condemned to death on the day before Passover, "it was the Day of Preparation for the Passover; and it was about noon" (John 19:14). Jesus is then executed a short time later after noon (still the Jewish "Day of Preparation" [for the Passover]).'
I have already cleared up the so called discrepancy that you and other liberals and secular skeptics seem to think exist.
People reading what I've posted need to carefully read what I've said.
Quote:
You varied your view from that day being "the Day of Preparation to the Passover" or "Passover Day" (again, see my quoted post). NOW you're saying that what you actually meant was that whenever you said "the same day" you were referring to "Friday"? Please.... If that is what you meant "all along", then you should have specified that you meant "Friday".
No, I did not. See the first section of this post. Again from post #40 and posted just above, 'That agrees with what I've been saying on this thread (except that I disagree that Jesus was crucified on a Friday), and which you deny. You have said that the Gospel of Mark shows Jesus being crucified on Passover while John has Him being crucified a day earlier. I have said all along that all four Gospels are in agreement that Jesus was crucified on the same day.
I do not believe that Jesus was crucified on a Friday, and clearly said so.
Quote:
You addressed it - but did not persuade anyone except yourself. Again - you're claiming that the majority of Biblical scholars are wrong, and that you are right - yet you have shown to everyone that you are not even aware of the Synoptic vs John problem that has been a mainstay of scholarship for ages. They're called Synoptics for a reason, and John is not among their number for the same reason.
I am empathically stating that I have no regard for liberal or secular scholars who attempt to discredit the Bible.
Each of the four Gospels emphasizes a different aspect of Jesus Christ.
Matthew presents Christ as King.
Mark presents Christ as a servant.
Luke presents Christ as the Son of Man - as man in His essential humanity.
John presents Christ as the Son of God - emphasizing His deity.
Each of the four Gospels have material unique to them alone.
And all four Gospels also have material that is common to all.
And All four Gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on Passover.
Quote:
I know ALL about the commentary and the seminary - I have had a subscription to Bibliotheca Sacra for many, many years. I assume you have no idea what that is, so I'll let you know. As opposed to the popular commentary you are quoting from (designed for laypeople, pastors and teachers - and NOT for scholars), Bibliotheca Sacra is a semi-scholarly journal for semi-scholars, and is thus not entirely dumbed down for pastors, teachers and laypeople - even though it is primarily designed for them.
It is not known to be the most scholarly journal out there (because of the aforementioned audience in mind) and it has a decided theological outlook that biases its objectivity. Other scholarly journals try to avoid this, and approach the subject fairly - without having an axe to grind, or a point to prove. That is what you have - a point to prove, no matter how much you must twist the Gospels. It is for this reason (which you will find no problem with, no doubt) that your Dallas Theological Seminary's Commentary is not widely used by anyone who wants a scholarly, informed commentary - it's used by pastors and teachers who only wish to buttress their faith with reassuring dogmatics. Even so - it's a minority viewpoint. You will find the vast majority of commentaries (reliable or otherwise) admitting that the problem between John and the Synoptics is a real problem, and no amount of huffing and puffing is going to change that.
Catch up, Mike. Step up to the next level of biblical literacy - you won't regret it.
I'm only calling it like I see it, and it appears that most people agree with me. Do you find much agreement on this thread (or the other one) with your views? No - you don't. I guess you're right, and everyone else is wrong. I guess the majority of experts in the field are wrong, and you're right.
My argument is not weakened one bit by your assumption that I'm "attacking" you. I'm attacking your statements, and your preconceived notions - I'm not personally attacking YOU. There's a difference. If you cannot take some dissenting views, then it's time to get out of the kitchen where the grownups aren't afraid to discuss issues that might challenge their faith from time to time. If the shoe fits....
I just have to remind myself: it's uselss to argue with a fundamentalist. They have already made up their mind, and are unable to accept any dissenting views. Oh well.
You have not even sought to specifically address what I have said, but have instead attempted to discredit my sources and me thinking that it strengthens your position. Your views are those of the liberal and are biased against the Bible.
I know what Bibliotheca Sacra is. John F. Walvoord who succeeded Lewis Sperry Chafer as President of Dallas Theological Seminary was editor of Bibliotheca Sacra, as well as one of the editors of The Bible Knowledge Commentary.
You say that Dallas Theological Seminary has a theological outlook? Of course it does. What Theological Seminary doesn't? Dallas Seminary has doctoral courses designed for the Pastor and the scholar. Many of the contributing authors of the Bible Knowledge Commentary are Ph.D's. And the Bible Knowledge Commentary is an excellent commentary which is indeed aimed at Pastors, Bible teachers, and serious students. Your statement that Scholars are a step above Pastor/teachers is foolish. Liberal scholars and secular scholars seek to discredit the Bible. I give them no credence.
You have no argument. Liberals such as yourself, and scholars of the liberal type, or the secular type, are not interested in the truth. The huffing and puffing as you call it is being done by you. Not by me.
The four Gospels, as I have shown, are clear to anyone who will make an effort to read what they say, that they all agree that Jesus was crucified on Passover.
Readers are asked to carefully read what I have said in this post, as well as in Posts #1, 10, 21, 33, 40, 49, and 59.
Last edited by Michael Way; 02-23-2012 at 12:38 AM..
Oh no! Liberal scholars! Skeptics!!! Is that an ad hominem attack I detect?
If "liberal, skeptical scholars" are skeptical of anything, it is of the various "truth" claims that conservative, non-questioning believers insist upon before fully investigating a matter. To the latter, dogma becomes more important than scripture - preconceived ideas of harmony trump what one would expect from four different accounts of the same story by four different (possibly more).
You have already made up your mind on certain issues. You already know all there is to know about the Gospels, apparantly.
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