Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hopefully people have wised up and realized that the thief on the cross has nothing to do with this argument.
Of course he does. He wasn't baptized. But he was saved. If you're going to make an absolute statement that baptism is necessary, there are no exceptions.
Sorry Vizio: Read on. Baptism is commanded and in fact, Jesus warns that there is no salvation for those who are not baptized by water and the spirit.
Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Why is baptism required? Because the HOly Spirit is given in baptism, and no one can believe and be saved without the work of the HOly Spirit. Baptism is also required because God requires it.
Ac 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
We have this confusion because people mix up the act of going under the water (or sprinkling with water), from linking yourself to Christ dying on the cross and being raised again. What Peter is referring to, is the baptism into Christ's death on the cross and being raised again.
It's this baptism that saves us, because we are linked with Jesus. The whole deal with the water, is an exercise we do to show what's happened on the inside of us. Think about it, how many people jump into a pool everyday? Physically, that's the same thing happening in the ceremony of baptism. (And I don't want to use the word ceremony, because it kind of strips the excitement from the person going under the water.) If the act of going under the water was so special, millions of upon millions of people have done that. No, it's about the mind. Linking yourself to Christ, and being given a new spirit. So to review, baptism has two meanings. One is the ceremonial act. Two, is what Peter was referring to and what actually took place, being baptized into Jesus' death and being raised a new creature. The ceremonial act is just a physical display of what took place on the inside.
Going back to Noah, he was found in the ark. Who do you think the ark represents? You guessed it, Jesus! When we are found in Jesus, death has no power over us, and we live. Just like Noah lived through the flood, because he was in the ark. So likewise we are found in Jesus.
Sorry Vizio: Read on. Baptism is commanded and in fact, Jesus warns that there is no salvation for those who are not baptized by water and the spirit.
Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Why is baptism required? Because the HOly Spirit is given in baptism, and no one can believe and be saved without the work of the HOly Spirit. Baptism is also required because God requires it.
Ac 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Read each of those in context. Not a single one of them means water baptism for salvation.
As I've pointed out....the thief on the cross was not baptized. In acts 10:44-48 we see people that were saved prior to baptism. To suggest baptism is necessary is simply wrong. It's heretical, even, as you're suggesting that faith in Christ is not enough.
The reoccurring theme of 1st Peter is suffering and the appropriate response of a Christian. Katiemygirl the "baptism" mentioned in 1 Peter 3:21 is the "baptism" of suffering, which is a "baptism" of trial and fire.
Quote:
Mat 3:11 "I baptize you with water, for repentance, but the one coming after me is more powerful than I am — I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with theHoly Spirit and fire.
Mat 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clean out his threshing floor and will gather his wheat into the storehouse, but the chaff he will burn up with inextinguishable fire."
Mar 10:38 But Jesus said to them, "You don't know what you are asking! Are you able to drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I experience?"
Mar 10:39 They said to him, "We are able." Then Jesus said to them, "You will drink the cup I drink, and you will be baptized with the baptism I experience,
Luk 12:50 I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is finished!
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs (namely, heirs of God and also fellow heirs with Christ) — if indeed we suffer with him so we may also be glorified with him.
1Pe 1:6 This brings you great joy, although you may have to suffer for a short time in various trials.
1Pe 1:7 Such trials show the proven character of your faith, which is much more valuable than gold — gold that is tested by fire, even though it is passing away — and will bring praise and glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.
1Pe 1:8 You have not seen him, but you love him. You do not see him now but you believe in him, and so you rejoice with an indescribable and glorious joy,
1Pe 4:1 So, since Christ suffered in the flesh, you also arm yourselves with the same attitude, because the one who has suffered in the flesh has finished with sin,
1Pe 4:12 Dear friends, do not be astonished that a trial by fire is occurring among you, as though something strange were happening to you.
1Pe 4:13 But rejoice in the degree that you have shared in the sufferings of Christ, so that when his glory is revealed you may also rejoice and be glad. 1Pe 4:19 So then let those who suffer according to the will of God entrust their souls to a faithful Creator as they do good.
Baptism is not repeated in the second half of the verse because unbelief is enough to be lost. One doesn't have to not be baptized in order to be lost, one simply has not to believe. However, belief and baptism are both necessary in order to be saved.
So when we get to Heaven we will say, "Worthy is the Lamb, and water"?
Also, I read one of the posts in here and I immediately remember something Jesus once said. He said that those who believe in Him, out of their bellies shall flow rivers of living water. He also once told His disciples that they were clean because of the words He spoke to them. In another instance Jesus referred to His words as spirit and life. So ultimately this takes us back to Jesus saying that no one can enter into the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. This water is not natural water. It's the words of the Gospel. What is the Gospel? That Jesus has taken all of our sins upon the cross, and those who believe on Him, will receive His rigtheousness.
A perfect example again is going back, and looking at Peter preaching to Cornelius and his house. The people were listening to Peter, and while Peter was still speaking (obviously they were hearing Peter's words and changing their mind as they were listening, as they were being spiritually cleaned by the words they were hearing), the Holy Spirit fell upon them all. This is an excellent example of rivers of living water coming from our bellies. Also an example of being born of water and the Spirit. It's this baptism that saves us, not our physical act of being dumped in water. The dumping into water is just an expression of our faith. Much like taking communion is just an expression of our faith.
Sorry Vizio: Read on. Baptism is commanded and in fact, Jesus warns that there is no salvation for those who are not baptized by water and the spirit.
Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Why is baptism required? Because the HOly Spirit is given in baptism, and no one can believe and be saved without the work of the HOly Spirit. Baptism is also required because God requires it.
Ac 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
To say that this does not speak to baptism is simply the wanton opposition to the truth.
Baptism is not repeated in the second half of the verse because unbelief is enough to be lost. One doesn't have to not be baptized in order to be lost, one simply has not to believe. However, belief and baptism are both necessary in order to be saved.
That is why it is careful to let scriptures speak for themselves.
Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, ....... Jesus includes baptism in being saved
but whoever does not believe will be condemned...... Jesus excludes baptism in being condemned
One can either just accept what is said or use human reason to obstruct what Jesus said like what Calvin did
Hopefully people have wised up and realized that the thief on the cross has nothing to do with this argument.
How does it not?...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
