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God's purpose for providing salvation for fallen mankind is to bring many sons into glory through Jesus Christ (Romans 8:28-30; 2 Timothy 1:9). God's plan of salvation involved Jesus coming into the world as a member of the human race, but without sin, and remaining without sin, and then going to the Cross to die for all the sins in the history of the human race, past, present, and future.
Therefore, Christ died for all so that anyone who believes on Him has eternal life.
Some claim that Jesus only died for the elect - limited atonement. But a simple comparison of two verses (there are others) show that Christ died for all.
1 Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
In Adam all die.
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died.
1 Corinthians 15:22 tells us that all die in Adam, while 2 Corinthians 5:14 tells us that since Christ died for all, then all died. Jesus paid for the sins of all who are in Adam. That's all of us.
2 Corinthians 5:15 then tells us that Christ died for all so that those who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
Now Christ died for all, but only the person who has believed on Christ is 'in Christ'.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes on Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Scripture does not conflict with Scripture. When Jesus says that not all will believe, obey, etc, he isn't lying. God 'wants" us all to be saved, but it is left in our hands to obey and be saved.
One of the keys to why men think otherwise is their almost total focus on self.
God loves ME
Jesus died for ME
I am saved
I am going to heaven
I can't lose my salvation.
Yet Jesus spoke of obey the will of His Father and most have no idea of what that is beyond their "accepting Jesus and being saved". That very narrow focus shows they have missed the boat as it were and are sailing towards, well not heaven nor salvation. Such focus is what Adam and Eve had, on themselves and not dying and being like God. That didn't work then and it won't work now.
God had a plan from day zero. Adam did not mess things up.
Adam messed it up or God's plan included every murder, rape, child killing and the centuries of needless suffering just to please God!!!!!! Not a chance; He is much wiser that that, but does not want robots in his kingdom, rather willing sons.
I voted, "I believe something else." Generally speaking, I pick the choice that most closely matches my belief, even if it doesn't describe my belief perfectly. If I had done that on this poll, I would have voted, "Ultimately the entire world will be saved without exception."
The main reason why I didn't pick that answer is that to me, it's an oversimplification of the truth, and implies that it doesn't matter one bit to God what we believe or how we live our lives. It seems to almost be implying that there are absolutely no consequences for anything we say, do or believe, and that makes no sense to me. So, having said that, here's what I actually believe...
I believe that God had designed a plan whereby everyone who has ever lived and whoever will live will have an opportunity to hear Christ's message, truly understand it, and make a choice as to whether to accept it or not. Many millions of people will undoubtedly hear and accept His gospel during their lifetimes. Even more, however, will go through mortality without ever having had this chance. I believe that no one will go to Heaven or to Hell immediately after death, but will continue to exist as a cognizant spirit in an intermediate realm until such time as each of us is resurrected and called to stand before God to be judged. During that time, those who have already accepted the gospel will be sharing it with those who were not fortunate enough to hear it during their lifetimes. Ultimately, all will hear the message and will either choose to accept Jesus Christ's Atonement on their behalf or to reject it.
Those who have accepted it (either during their mortal lives or as they await the resurrection) will, I believe, we welcomed into Heaven at the time of Christ's Second Coming. Those who have not, will not have the blessing of forgiveness through Jesus Christ but will be made to suffer the punishment for their own sins throughout Christ's millennial reign. By the end of that period of time, they too will recognized that despite His willingness to have paid the price for their sins, their choice to reject His offer caused them tremendous suffering they would not otherwise have had to endure. But having been punished for their sins, they will eventually all bow down and worship Christ and will be allowed to enter heaven.
Adam messed it up or God's plan included every murder, rape, child killing and the centuries of needless suffering just to please God!!!!!! Not a chance; He is much wiser that that, but does not want robots in his kingdom, rather willing sons.
So would you say Adam outsmarted God, or what? God put him in this garden and allowed Lucifer, the epitome of evil, to tempt him with a promise of godhood. Then, Adam, being like a little child, with no real understanding of either good or evil, caved in to this great-sounding promise and God was left wondering how on earth such a thing could have happened.
Scripture does not conflict with Scripture. When Jesus says that not all will believe, obey, etc, he isn't lying. God 'wants" us all to be saved, but it is left in our hands to obey and be saved.
One of the keys to why men think otherwise is their almost total focus on self.
God loves ME
Jesus died for ME
I am saved
I am going to heaven
I can't lose my salvation.
Yet Jesus spoke of obey the will of His Father and most have no idea of what that is beyond their "accepting Jesus and being saved". That very narrow focus shows they have missed the boat as it were and are sailing towards, well not heaven nor salvation. Such focus is what Adam and Eve had, on themselves and not dying and being like God. That didn't work then and it won't work now.
Once a person has been saved by grace through faith in Christ, he cannot lose his salvation. He cannot walk away from it.
If we have died with Christ we shall live with Christ.
Romans 6:8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
And every believer HAS, by virtue of his position in Christ, positionally died with Christ. By means of the baptism of the Holy Spirit every believer is identified with Jesus in His death, burial, resurrection, and session with Christ at the right hand of the Father (Ephesians 2:6).
It is the Father's will that all who believe on the Son should / WILL have eternal life.
John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38] "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39] "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40] "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will (echē - should) have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
These verses are strong affirmations of the believer's eternal security.
The believer has eternal life even now (Ephesians 2:5,8). The resurrection of the body is future, but the salvation of the soul is present time.
While discipleship requires continued obedience, receiving the free gift of eternal life is a matter of faith alone in Christ alone.
Grace focuses on Christ. Legalism focuses on self. Grace says 'done.' Legalism says 'do.'
Last edited by Michael Way; 12-02-2013 at 06:12 PM..
So would you say Adam outsmarted God, or what? God put him in this garden and allowed Lucifer, the epitome of evil, to tempt him with a promise of godhood. Then, Adam, being like a little child, with no real understanding of either good or evil, caved in to this great-sounding promise and God was left wondering how on earth such a thing could have happened.
Adam talked with God every day. He was not a child and he KNEW what he did was wrong. We are told he was not deceived. He knew good from evil in that he knew God's law. He had not experienced it personally until he ate. God knew how it "could" happen and He knew how to fix it. He gave Adam the choice and Adam failed, though he didn't have to. How do we know? Jesus the "second Adam" passed a far worse test.
God wants willing sons on earth, not those forced against their own desire. It is called Free Will; and we all have it.
So if you once believed but then at some point completely stop believing, you're still covered?
Yes. Exactly. Eternal life is a free gift as stated in Romans 5:15-16; Romans 6:23; and Revelation 22:17. And the gifts of God are irrevocable as Romans 11:29 tells us.
The believer is entered into union with Christ by means of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and becomes a part of Christ's body. And Jesus will not amputate even the unproductive and faithless members of His own body.
Take a look at 2 Timothy 2:11-13.
2 Timothy 2:11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
Remember Romans 6:8 which I referred to in post #15? Romans 6:8 'Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,'
2 Timothy 2:11 says the same thing. If we have died with Christ, and if we have believed in Christ then we HAVE died with Christ, we will also live with Him. That is a promise which God will not break.
The word 'if' in verse 11 is in the Greek first class condition, which means 'and it is assumed to be true', or in other words 'if and it is true.' We HAVE died with Christ. If you are interested, here is a description of the four conditional Greek clauses >>> Greek_If
2 Timothy 2:12 then speaks of the privilege of reigning with Christ if we endure in our Christian walk. And of the fact that if we deny Christ He will also deny us. This is not a denial of eternal life. We have just been told that if we died with Christ then we will also live with Christ. It is through the baptism of the Holy Spirit that every believer is identified with Jesus in His death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and session. Therefore, we will live with Christ. The denial pertains to rulership privileges in the kingdom and throughout the eternal future.
2 Timothy 2:12] If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
Now the issue of the faithless believer is addressed.
13] If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
Even if we are faithless, Jesus remains faithful to us. He cannot deny Himself, and we are a part of His body.
This is our eternal security. Once we have reached out and taken possession of the free gift of eternal life which God is offering to us, we have that free gift forever. God will not revoke it for any reason.
Last edited by Michael Way; 12-02-2013 at 08:04 PM..
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