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spm62, can you confirm Isaiah 44:24. Does that verse speak the Truth?
Did the God of the Old Testament really make the earth (ALONE) and
(BY HIMSELF)? Is that (TRUE) or (FALSE)?
I`m not sure how many times you want me to answer this question but you still of yet can`t answer the question I posed to you. I believe that Jesus was the creator....I believe that Jesus is God...I believe that Jesus was the one who spoke the world in existence. So ONCE again that verse is TRUE. Jesus is LORD...HE is God..He was the creator. Now, have you talk to your church yet to decide who created you? Why are you not able to answer that question? It`s a simple question..who created you?
Now, have you talk to your church yet to decide who created you? Why are you not able to answer that question? It`s a simple question..who created you?
Spm62,
Campbell did say
Quote:
For the sake of arguement, my Father pro-created me.
Well the problem with that belief is that the God which is speaking in Isaiah 44:24 states, that He is the God that (maketh all things). If you believe that Jesus is a created being, then it should be understood Jesus did not create Himself, and thus, he could not be the God of Isaiah 44:24.
Your making assumption about beliefs that nobody professes and using circular logic that doesn't apply.
Jesus is the God of the old testament. Jesus' father is God in the new testament. They're both God and they exist seperately and simultaneously.
Lets say your last name is Smith. Your Dad would be called Mr. Smith. You being his son would also make you Mr Smith. Does that mean your the same person? No of course not.
"Mr." is a title not a specific person.
God is also a title not a specific entity. So if I say Jesus is God it doesn't mean his father is not God or visa versa.
Quote:
Because the God of Isaiah 44:24 is the God that created all things which would include Jesus. So to suggest that Jesus was the God of the Old Testament would not fit, especially if you believe he was a created being.
Now I do not believe that Jesus was a created God, I believe He was with the Father from the beginning.
YOU say Jesus was with his father in the beginning. They created all things together and Jesus came to earth in the form of man and to you that fits with Isaiah 44:24. I say Jesus was with his father in the beginning. They created all things together and Jesus came to earth in the form of man and now you say that doesn't fit with Isaiah 44:24.
Which is it? Does it fit or doesn't it.
Your making assumption about beliefs that nobody professes and using circular logic that doesn't apply.
Jesus is the God of the old testament. Jesus' father is God in the new testament. They're both God and they exist seperately and simultaneously.
Lets say your last name is Smith. Your Dad would be called Mr. Smith. You being his son would also make you Mr Smith. Does that mean your the same person? No of course not.
"Mr." is a title not a specific person.
God is also a title not a specific entity. So if I say Jesus is God it doesn't mean his father is not God or visa versa.
YOU say Jesus was with his father in the beginning. They created all things together and Jesus came to earth in the form of man and to you that fits with Isaiah 44:24. I say Jesus was with his father in the beginning. They created all things together and Jesus came to earth in the form of man and now you say that doesn't fit with Isaiah 44:24.
Which is it? Does it fit or doesn't it.
Exactly offthefence. He totally contradicts himself. That is the reason noone in the church can explain the trinity. They believe it because the church tells them it`s true but when asked to explain it...it is nothing but circular logic and contradictions. The key point is they don`t understand that the word God is a TITLE. IT is not his name. The Father `s name is not God. Jesus`s name is not God.
Exactly offthefence. He totally contradicts himself. That is the reason noone in the church can explain the trinity. They believe it because the church tells them it`s true but when asked to explain it...it is nothing but circular logic and contradictions. The key point is they don`t understand that the word God is a TITLE. IT is not his name. The Father `s name is not God. Jesus`s name is not God.
Ah spm it's been explained, you just have chosen not to be believe it. And I believe it not because of what the church teaches, but because of what the Bible teaches.
Ah spm it's been explained, you just have chosen not to be believe it. And I believe it not because of what the church teaches, but because of what the Bible teaches.
I ilnc.. sorry but the bible does not teach a trinity. It isn`t mentioned,Jesus throughout the bible talks about the Father as a separate person over and over. It just doesn`t get any clearer. When I say I talked to someone, or someone is greater than I,or I`m going to someone, or I`m sitting beside someone, or someone gave me something..you know I`m talking about a different person other than myself. Just use that same logic and common sense with God. When Jesus says to be as one as he and the Father are one, I suppose he means for us to be the same exact person .... since you use that verse as proof that he is the same as the Father. I know you believe it as I used to when I was part of the church system and culture. I also know that you will continue to say that the church didn`t teach you that. We don`t want to admit that the church tells us something that isn`t true. But I think if you are truly honest with yourself and are willing to set pride aside and really truly reflect on it..in your quiet thoughts when you are alone with God....you know in your heart of hearts you believe in a trinity because the church teaches it. No disrespect to you and I hope this post doesn`t come across that way. I know you and I will be as one..one day..as christ and the Father are one. God Bless.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
Jesus was with God in the beginning
Ephesians 1:17-20 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[f] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms But the Father is not Jesus; the Father is "The God of Jesus"
I`m not sure how many times you want me to answer this question but you still of yet can`t answer the question I posed to you. I believe that Jesus was the creator....I believe that Jesus is God...I believe that Jesus was the one who spoke the world in existence. So ONCE again that verse is TRUE. Jesus is LORD...HE is God..He was the creator. Now, have you talk to your church yet to decide who created you? Why are you not able to answer that question? It`s a simple question..who created you?
The verse in question was spoken by the God who made (ALL) things. If you believe that Jesus was a created being, then Jesus was not the God who created (ALL) things. And He is not the God who is speaking in that verse.
Don't you find it a little strange that you can't confirm Isaiah 44:24 with a simple (YES).
Can you tell me why you cannot confirm Isaiah 44:24 with a simple (YES)?
You say you have answered my question, yet you really find it impossible to say (YES) to God's statement in Isaiah 44:24. So you give this long explanation, which allows you to avoid saying (YES). (WHY IS THAT?)
I have not attended church in years, yet if you want to know who made me, it was God.
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.... since you use that verse as proof that he is the same as the Father. I know you believe it as I used to when I was part of the church system and culture. I also know that you will continue to say that the church didn`t teach you that. We don`t want to admit that the church tells us something that isn`t true. But I think if you are truly honest with yourself and are willing to set pride aside and really truly reflect on it..in your quiet thoughts when you are alone with God....you know in your heart of hearts you believe in a trinity because the church teaches it. No disrespect to you and I hope this post doesn`t come across that way. I know you and I will be as one..one day..as christ and the Father are one. God Bless.
