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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,926,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf
Pray and fast that God/Christ will intervene and remove this wickedness just like Paul told the Corinthians they should be mourning that a wicked person in their midst be removed as an example.
1 Corinthians 5:1-13
(1) It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
(2) And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
(3) For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
(4) In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
(5) Todeliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
(6) Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
(7) Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
(8) Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
(9) I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
(10) Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
(11) But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
(12) For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
(13) But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
2 Corinthians 6:17-18
(17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
(18) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
When some one asks you a question, and you respond, why do you throw in a number of quotes in all sorts of colors. It does not help at all, as most will look at that string of quotes, convert them to blah blah blah, and wonder how the heck do you think it made sense to include them, as they do not address the issues at all.
Try being a bit more complete in your answers and less verbose on the chapter and verse bit, it may help get your point across.
With that logic, someone who is born with a brain that is geared towards kleptomania should never be held accountable for their actions. They can't help it! There is NO choice involved when they go out and steal, right?
Wrong. And your attempt to paint homosexuality in this light is crass too.
What they have no choice over is their compulsion to steal. Their need and desire to do so. In the same way that homosexuals can not simply choose to be attracted to women, I can not simply choose to be attracted to asians when I never have been before, and I assume you can not simply choose to be attracted to other men.
Where choice comes in is what to DO with those feelings when we have them. How or if to act on them or curtail them. Or to seek treatment, advice and help in dealing with them when they are compulsions towards immoral or harmful acts like stealing.
The crass analogy for you fails double therefore as you have failed to establish homosexual partnerships to be a harmful or immoral.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
So instead of directly offering counter points....
Now now, you are not the one to be admonishing others on avoiding and dodging points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Why would I not believe such a thing if I am to believe people are hard wired towards homosexuality and have NO choice in their behavior? Sexual orientation is a man made fictional word.
Here you repeat your error. They have no choice in their orientation. That is worlds apart from declaring based on nothing that they have no choice in their behavior. Learn the difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Does lesbianism exist in the animal kingdom?
Yes. As does male homosexuality. Pedophilia. Canabalism. And much more. What happens in the animal kingdom is not the standard by which we mediate human morality.
'Religion' may be waning in popularity, but don't forget that God is still the ultimate authority and judge of all humanity.
Don't forget that there is no proof of the existence of any gods so far and that there are millions of people who don't believe in any religions/gods so beliefs are a personal thing that should not be forced on to others.
By the way, the god you are talking about has its origins in Sumerian myhtology.
Paul gave you an example what to do about someone engaging in a similar sin also listed in Leviticus 18. He said put the man out and used the example of putting out leaven during the Days of Unleavened Bread and told the Corinthians to purge out the old leaven which represents the sin this man was bringing into their fellowship and their own personal sins as well.
You are "cherry-picking" the New Testament scriptures and choosing only Christ words that support your arguments when the Apostle Paul speaks precisely about the topic at hand and you have no answer for Paul's words because Paul nails you on your error.
1 Cor 5:1-13
(1) It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. (2) And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
(3) For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
(4) In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
(5) To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
(6) Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? (7)Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
(8) Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
(9) I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
(10) Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
(11) But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
(12) For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
(13) But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
You teach contrary. You say throw the fundamentalist preachers like Paul out and bring those who commit abominable sexual sins in.
You have got it backwards.
tthttf
When you make Paul's words equal to those of Jesus, you reflect your real religion-- that of Paul, a man like you or me. Or perhaps you don't believe Jesus to be the Son of God, sent specifically to demonstrate in word and deed how we are to live.
Your religion is most akin to the Muslim world. Many of those nations kill homosexuals. It's a terrific comparison to the kind of ungodly things you've been writing.
And if you fail to follow any Mosaic law--which you do--then you have broken them all. And that would include the Mosaic law on homosexuality.
Repent and turn away from ugliness toward people God created and look to Jesus who is the example of how we are to treat others.
God passes judgement. The Holy Spirit brings conviction. Your only job is to love. And writing as you do cannot possibly win anyone to Christ.
The refusal to acknowledge or address all the other condemnations and punishments in Leviticus and give them equal status to the mention of homosexuality reveals and spotlights personal bias.
They are completely ignored as if written in disappearing ink.
When you make Paul's words equal to those of Jesus, you reflect your real religion-- that of Paul, a man like you or me. Or perhaps you don't believe Jesus to be the Son of God, sent specifically to demonstrate in word and deed how we are to live.
Your religion is most akin to the Muslim world. Many of those nations kill homosexuals. It's a terrific comparison to the kind of ungodly things you've been writing.
And if you fail to follow any Mosaic law--which you do--then you have broken them all. And that would include the Mosaic law on homosexuality.
Repent and turn away from ugliness toward people God created and look to Jesus who is the example of how we are to treat others.
God passes judgement. The Holy Spirit brings conviction. Your only job is to love. And writing as you do cannot possibly win anyone to Christ.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Since Paul wrote this you probably think it is a "Mosaic" plot to inject conservative values into the New Testament. Actually, it was Christ, the Word, that spoke most of the words in the Old Testament when He was speaking to Moses if you know your Bible. So the scriptures condemning homosexuality actually were spoken by Christ before He was in the flesh.
Paul's writings in 1 Corinthians addresses this idea of abominable sin and what is to be done about it. One of the very sins listed in Leviticus 18 is being dealt with here and Paul does exactly as one would expect -- he excommunicates "that wicked person" for his sexual misconduct whereas you preach the exact opposite.
This scripture in 1 Corinthians breaks your do-nothing jesus and exposes him as the false jesus he really is. God hates sin. Jesus Christ hates sin and so should we. You need to repent and preach truthfully against this abominable sin of homosexuality.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Since Paul wrote this you probably think it is a "Mosaic" plot to inject conservative values into the New Testament. Actually, it was Christ, the Word, that spoke most of the words in the Old Testament when He was speaking to Moses if you know your Bible. So the scriptures condemning homosexuality actually were spoken by Christ before He was in the flesh.
Paul's writings in 1 Corinthians addresses this idea of abominable sin and what is to be done about it. One of the very sins listed in Leviticus 18 is being dealt with here and Paul does exactly as one would expect -- he excommunicates "that wicked person" for his sexual misconduct whereas you preach the exact opposite.
This scripture in 1 Corinthians breaks your do-nothing jesus and exposes him as the false jesus he really is. God hates sin. Jesus Christ hates sin and so should we. You need to repent and preach truthfully against this abominable sin of homosexuality.
tthttf
Jesus Christ LOVED sinners. That's why He spent so much time with them.
You simply wish to justify personal hate by hiding behind scripture. Jesus condemned Pharisees for doing that exact thing. He told them that they thought they would find salvation in the scripture, but that scripture pointed to Him. And guess what? He LOVED sinners. If He hated sinners so much why didn't He spend all His time like you are doing--condemning them?
You have a polluted view of Scripture and need to do some critical study if you believe it was Jesus speaking to Moses--Moses who never composed a single word of the OT. The Torah is the work of at least four different authors, identified as Jehovah writer, Elhoiem writer, Deuteronomic writer, and Priestly writer. You have a Sunday School approach to scripture which is why you get it wrong so frequently.
Jesus said love your enemies, pray for them who despitefully use you. What did Paul say--pray for your enemies so you can heap coals of fire on their heads. You can have Paul. I'll stick with Jesus. Paul is easy to follow because his writing often plays into prejudice. Jesus is much harder because it calls on one to deny self.
If you want to read I Corinthians go over to the thirteenth chapter and read the verse that says, "These three abide, faith, hope, and love. And the greatest of these is LOVE. Try practicing it some. Then no one will be thinking of you as a wicked person.
You sound pretty bossy. That's not a very meek and humble spirit fitting for a Christian lady.
Translation for those not up on fundamentalist-speak: I don't like what you're saying so I'm going to use buzz words to try and shut you up. Women are lesser beings who are supposed to keep sweet and stay silent. (Until it's time to serve the covered dishes for pot luck. Then they're supposed to say. "That one's bean and ham. I hope you enjoy it.")
Response: I brought Jesus into the discussion. As has Wardendresden. Are you in some weird sect that doesn't like to be reminded of Jesus? p.s. You keep shaking your finger like that, you'll wear it out.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 11-25-2014 at 07:48 AM..
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