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Ok. I understand that. Animist with Deist leaning is a good place to be.
I don't know if this relates to you or not, but I had a dear friend years ago that was an "outdoors" man. He had no religion and he really didn't believe in God the way I do, but the outdoors was his godly place. He drew strength and comfort from being out in the woods and on the water. He was almost reverent about it - like some are in church. When he had problems or something he needed to mull over, he went to the woods or fishing. There he found what he needed. For him, that was his time with "God", though he didn't term it that way. I never doubted that he was in "church" and communing with "God". It was as right and natural for him as for someone else going to church. He introduced me to his wonderful world. His demeanor was different. There was a reverence in him I rarely saw from people in church. Of course, when I saw his haven and felt the power of it, I called it God. He never did. But whatever he felt was just as true for him as it was for me. That is why I preach, "one's own path".
I think "God" manifests Himself in numerous ways and I don't think you have to go to church or call a deity, God, to find within you the Great Mystery. I think that the really "great mystery" is that it was within each of us all along - whatever you do or don't call it.
If more religious people were like TroutDude, many atheists & agnostics would have no issues with religion. I certainly wouldn't.
Notice how he doesn't make wild assumptions about atheists or agnostics or deliberately mischaracterize them. Nor does he use his religious views to bully those who disagree. As far as I know, he doesn't indoctrinate children with his views, or use his religion to control people, gain political power, or get wealth. Nota Bene.
But that's what happens to Christians on here all the time.
We are accused of doing the same things and stereotyped. I am constantly being asked why do you talk about homosexuality all the time, but I don't talk about homosexuality. I think the entire time I have been on this website, I may have started one or two threads on that topic alone, so why am I constantly left to justify others? Then I am accused of being closed-minded but when you actually try to have a conversation with someone that is not a believer, and you ask them challenging questions, they become offended and they take it as though you are attacking them, so they find ways to derail the conversation by attacking you personally. I honestly have had very few conversations with nonbelievers that didn't end up in some kind of stupid war of words. Let's face facts, people are going to get offended when you challenge their way of thinking regardless of what they believe or don't believe. All atheists aren't as open minded as they are being described and I think if that was the case then this thread wouldn't even exist nor would it be 24 pages in a day.
Funny thread. I would start with the fact that this is the Christianity sub-forum, so right away you have eliminated the atheists who are preoccupied with College football. When you put in the atheists who are simply interested in the political and social activities of Christians, particularly Fundevangelists (and a tip of the hat to da Dude) we are pretty6 much left with the atheists who converted from restrictive religious situations and want to either share their freedom or anathemize the people who influenced their bondage....or both. Good reasons I'd have to say.
Anyone who is upset about these challenges is welcome to ignore the threads......please. That would generally leave the more rational responses to make better threads.
I spent about 30 years of my life either as a cultural Christian or as a dedicated Christian. I met some rather good friends and had some good times here and there, but for the most part, after escaping from the grip of Christianity, I realize how traumatized I really was/am. I literally HATE church. While there are some Christians songs I still love, when I hear some of them, they take my mind back to a mixture of good emotions (hanging out with friends and taking trips) and bad emotions (being bored out of my mind at times, being horrified at times among other things). I literally try to distance myself from ANYTHING to do with my Christian past and try to deal with the regret of practically wasting much of my life chasing a pipe dream.
All of that being said, just yesterday, I was speaking to an old friend from my Christian days and from a past conversation, he was made aware that I am no longer a Christian and have no reason for Church nor do I go. So I was telling him about my new path in life and how happy I am with it. He was able to ascertain that I am the SAME person (without the religion) and yet, as the call was ending, he pleaded with me to start going back to church and to reconsider "God." Ugh!
I am a black man and like folks in the U.S South, there is just this assumption that I MUST be a person who believes in God. Other black folks talk to me in Gospel speak because it is just assumed that I pray, that I believe in God, that I believe in heaven and hell and that I believe "God is gonna work it out." When I start to hear the "Gospelese," it makes me cringe and I am left with this weird situation of not knowing how to answer or react. The assumption is forced on me and if I speak up and saying anything remotely close to not believing in the hocus pocus, it steers the conversation in an entirely different direction and the analyzing starts.
A family I know from my Christian days is about to lose their eldest sibling to cancer and so I called to offer support. In the course of the conversation I heard:
"We are praying for the best."
"God is good and he knows best."
"Just keep us in your prayers."
"God is a god of miracles."
Then the conversation went off to asking me about what church I attend and blah blah blah. This conversation came after a conversation the week before with another former church friend who started talking about church life, changes in his theology and the death of his father and then telling me all about heaven.
For those moments when I have had an opportunity to say something dissenting, I have been talked down, not given a chance to get a word in edge wise and essentially threatened. My own mom got wind of the fact that I use Facebook as a platform to gently tell my sphere of friends I no longer believe. As a result, I got a call, that was actually a scolding, in which she told me I was embarrassing her and that I should stop telling people I don't believe in God. For an entire hour, my mother went in on me to the point where she told her I stressed her out with the thought that I might go to the "other place."
When I come to these type forums, I get a chance to learn a few things and also to hone my ability to speak my position and not be afraid or feel that I am alone. Also, as with Alt Thinker, I actually appreciate the bible because I am a history buff and find it fascinating to see how religious beliefs shaped the course of history or how history shaped religion. I don't HATE "God" or the Bible, but I do believe there is some real flawed thinking out there, ESPECIALLY among my own black folks who, in there disenfranchised state, still look for a sweet chariot to swing low and carry them home.
IIDM,
I am sorry for your difficult situation. It is always a problem when you take a different turn from family and friends. Hang in there.
But that's what happens to Christians on here all the time.
We are accused of doing the same things and stereotyped. <snip>
My post was not directed toward you. I apologize if it appeared to be.
Unfortunately, some of the other posters were accusing atheists and agnostics of attacking Christianity and religion for no reason (other than supposedly hating God or wanting to offend people). My post was an attempt to address that.
Why are atheists so obsessed with the Bible, God, Christ, Christians, and Christianity? Just look at the OP posts on this little forum. Nearly every OP is on whereby an atheists asks "Why would God?, Why do Christians?, Why is God so mean?, A Question for Christians."
Since atheists do not believe in God, the Christ, the Bible, Christianity, and apparently believe Christians are the most ignorant people on earth, why such an obsession with matters of Christians and Christianity among atheists. Don't they have anything better on which to spend their time and vent their hatred? It's totally pathetic.
What do you expect from Godless sinners? Anyway, who cares. They're all going to hell after they die so let them have a little fun while they're alive. At least if they are on the forums making silly posts they are off the streets and not doing all kinds of evil things like atheists are known to do.
What do you expect from Godless sinners? Anyway, who cares. They're all going to hell after they die so let them have a little fun while they're alive. At least if they are on the forums making silly posts they are off the streets and not doing all kinds of evil things like atheists are known to do.
Thank you Ashley! It's good to have another example.
See, there's no reason for atheists and agnostics should have a problem with some religious people. None at all. Move along, nothing to see here.
I was in church 60 years ago when it was the Jews which were the reason America was going to hell in a hand basket. Then it was Negros; then it was women; then it was women, again. I don't know who they hated on next because I was no longer sitting in the church pew.
Do you happen to have any examples of those sermons claiming America was going to hell in a hand basket because of women?
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