Why does homosexuality anger conservative Christians more than other sins? (women, believe)
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you know what, forget it. i am really done here. i have been trying very hard to understand both sides of this argument and have even tried to show some compassion regarding certain aspects of it, to feel some sense of the frustrations that everyone has but all i get is grief and indignant responses. i guess some people are just never going to be happy. i am really starting to get angry with these posts and i just don't want to go there..i've had it. i wish all of you well but we all have a very long road ahead of us. don't bother posting any responses to this because i will not answer.
There is no proof that people are born that way. In fact, many are showed to have a history of sexual relations with members of the opposite sex especially lesbians. I don't think that would happen if you were "born that way". We now live in a society where people change their orientation or gender like changing into a pair of jeans.
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Originally Posted by ImissThe90's
I think you know next to nothing about human sexuality if you think this means people aren't gay. One of my best friends growing up always had a boyfriend. Lost her virginity early on, to a boy, and kept on have relations with men up until she was about 20. At that point, she started doing drugs, started drinking, and tried to commit suicide. When I asked her why she did it, she said, "Because I can't live life being someone I'm not anymore".
Long story short, she knew she was a lesbian from the time she was old enough to know what being gay way. Unfortunately, she had very religious parents who always made derogatory comments about gay people, and made it clear they disliked gay people, and didn't want any around them because they were disgusting abominations. So, she proceeded to over compensate, trying to "prove" to both herself and her parents, that she wasn't gay. Thankfully, after that experience and a lot of help from her friends (not her family. They were a lost cause), she is now happily married to a woman, and they have a beautiful adopted child. She no longer sees her family, but is happier than she has ever been.
In other words, gay kids, when faced with the possibility of your parents disowning you, or being bullied incessantly by the ignorant morons around you, choose the path of least resistance. In case you didn't get that, that would mean acting straight, even if they aren't. You should really get out more, Jeffery, because it is clear you know NOTHING about gay people, even when you come on here acting like you do. People like myself, who actually have experience in this area are far more qualified to speak on it than the like of you.
He doesn't have a clue, just a biased and prejudice view based on his own likes and dislikes, as he hides behind his Bible. It's the way of a fundamentalist who finds it difficult to accept people for who they are, and how they were born. I find that it is pure ignorance on their part. He has even attempted to use aids or the HIV virus to justify his campaign of discrimination.
you know what, forget it. i am really done here. i have been trying very hard to understand both sides of this argument and have even tried to show some compassion regarding certain aspects of it, to feel some sense of the frustrations that everyone has but all i get is grief and indignant responses. i guess some people are just never going to be happy. i am really starting to get angry with these posts and i just don't want to go there..i've had it. i wish all of you well but we all have a very long road ahead of us. don't bother posting any responses to this because i will not answer.
You're right, some people never will be. I am perfectly happy with my life, but will never be 100% happy when there are people in the world (especially in my neck of the woods) who think bullying and discrimination is an okay thing. Maybe you are fine with marginalized groups being picked on and bullied, but most of us aren't. And everyone outside of you fundamentalists, are starting to get on board.
Sorry that people standing up for those with less of a voice makes you angry, but some of us want to move forward, not backwards.
He doesn't have a clue, just a biased and prejudice view based on his own likes and dislikes, as he hides behind his Bible. It's the way of a fundamentalist who finds it difficult to accept people for who they are, and how they were born. I find that it is pure ignorance on their part.
Exactly, Jerwade. I hate when people come on here acting like they know all about something, but obviously have no clue. That goes for anything btw, not just this topic.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
I was born as all people are born. Given a unique identity and a soul. My life experiences played a role in shaping my attractions, not genetics.
Really now? So you believe that at some point in your life, you could have gone gay if not for how you were raised? You clearly don't know any gay people, and have done no research on the subject... It's sad, really, how far off base you really are.
they can go to church, they can sing in a choir, they can be married without being harassed (or were you not listening in 2015?)
for every bakery that may say no, there are 1,000 more that will say yes. what's to stop you from going to one of them? and lest you think i am being crass, i have felt this discrimination myself throughout my life by being asked to leave a store or shop because i have a Christian t-shirt on, or because people don't like the way i look (i was born with a cleft palate, a hairlip and a deviated septum so i look different than everyone else) i have been denied jobs because of it. i have had people move away from me on public transit so don't tell i don't know what discrimination is. so you know what i do? i live with it and thank God for every day i wake up and am able to be alive.
btw, Matt. 7:12 reads this way: "Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets". it says nothing about tearing skin off your body.
and finally, Christians are called to the "Great Commission" which is to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ to all the world. in order for people to understand why they would need a Savior, they need to understand why they are sinners. otherwise, there is little reason to want to make a change in their lives.
i probably think along the lines of what Jesus wants far more than you think i do so i wouldn't be so judgmental of others. they just might be more Christlike than you imagine.
I don't doubt you have done "good" things. Most people do--even evil people sometimes do good things. That doesn't make you a follower of Jesus' commands.
You have a CHOICE to see homosexuality as a sin or as no big deal. You've chosen to see them all as "sinners." They had no choice in how they were born.
I was born into a racist family. My grandfather believed blacks could be saved but they would have their own separate section in heaven (but not in hell!!! ). So don't tell me I don't know discrimination. My family was always pointing out how "liberal" I was in conservative Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana.
Gays cannot go to every evangelical church. In fact, most would keep them out or certainly not allow them to stand in the pulpit or sing in the choir. Ask BaptistFundie. He has stated as much.
As for marriage, it certainly wasn't that easy in Kentucky when a county clerk refused to obey the Supreme Court ruling, now was it?
The Bible is a living book that changes from generation to generation, never being static. Even within the Bible there are differing points of view--as in the command from God that eunuchs not be allowed into the sanctuary of God (No one who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the LORD [Deut. 23:1]), followed by a NEW commandment from God in Isaiah--(And let no eunuch complain, "I am only a dry tree." For this is what the LORD says: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant- to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will endure forever. [Isaiah 56:3b-5])
It's time for your stunted morality to grow up and for you to love your neighbors equally regardless of any sins they may or may not have committed. Be like Jesus.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 11-26-2018 at 02:16 PM..
I think you know next to nothing about human sexuality if you think this means people aren't gay. One of my best friends growing up always had a boyfriend. Lost her virginity early on, to a boy, and kept on have relations with men up until she was about 20. At that point, she started doing drugs, started drinking, and tried to commit suicide. When I asked her why she did it, she said, "Because I can't live life being someone I'm not anymore".
Long story short, she knew she was a lesbian from the time she was old enough to know what being gay way. Unfortunately, she had very religious parents who always made derogatory comments about gay people, and made it clear they disliked gay people, and didn't want any around them because they were disgusting abominations. So, she proceeded to over compensate, trying to "prove" to both herself and her parents, that she wasn't gay. Thankfully, after that experience and a lot of help from her friends (not her family. They were a lost cause), she is now happily married to a woman, and they have a beautiful adopted child. She no longer sees her family, but is happier than she has ever been.
In other words, gay kids, when faced with the possibility of your parents disowning you, or being bullied incessantly by the ignorant morons around you, choose the path of least resistance. In case you didn't get that, that would mean acting straight, even if they aren't. You should really get out more, Jeffery, because it is clear you know NOTHING about gay people, even when you come on here acting like you do. People like myself, who actually have experience in this area are far more qualified to speak on it than the like of you.
Sorry I don't buy that argument one bit. I don't care if I'm disowned or bullied. No one could peer pressure me into having same sex relations as an adult, not to mention that the other partner would not want to be with someone who found the relationship to be disgusting and against their true desires. They wouldn't have a partner for long.
As always, there is more to the story, often sexual abuse is somewhere in their history or the family's history. I think the reality is that you are far too much attached to this issue on a personal level to ever see if objectively from our perspective. You NEED to demonize us to feel good about your side. It's sad that you ran off a good poster like urban with the cheap tactic of goading him to talk about his personal life and then throwing down ridiculous judgement about someone's personal character.
I was born as all people are born. Given a unique identity and a soul. My life experiences played a role in shaping my attractions, not genetics.
Sadly you weren't born very smart. And you compound it by never researching your answers.
Science says you have your head up your---where the sun don't shine!
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Neuroanatomical differences have been reported for three brain regions based on sexual orientation in human males: the arginine vasopressin neuronal population of the suprachiasmatic nucleus, which was larger in gay men than in male and female controls [296]; the third interstitial nucleus of the anterior hypothalamus (INAH-3), which is smaller in gay men and more similar in size to female controls [297]; and the anterior commissure, which is larger in gay men than in control males and females [298]. The most discussed anatomical finding was in INAH-3 [297]. Although subsequent researchers reported inconsistent findings [299], a comparable difference was found in sheep [300].
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The role of prenatal androgens
One of the main hypotheses on the determinants of sexual orientation was that same-sex attraction was the result of atypical sex-hormone levels during gestation. Studies in rodents and ferrets showed that pre- or perinatal hormonal manipulation could lead to changes in partner preference, sexual behavior, and coital performance largely controlled by the hypothalamus [301; 302].
Sorry I don't buy that argument one bit. I don't care if I'm disowned or bullied. No one could peer pressure me into having same sex relations as an adult, not to mention that the other partner would not want to be with someone who found the relationship to be disgusting and against their true desires. They wouldn't have a partner for long.
Well, you don't have to "buy it". It happens. Period. Maybe you think you would have no issue, and yay for you, but a lot of kids do. If you are pressured into something every day of your life as a kid, it can cause you all sorts of issues. You seem to gloss over the fact that it started long before she was an adult. Even after that, her family was so adamant about their hatred for gay people, she still kept it up. She didn't want to lose her family. Again, maybe you would just lose your family and move on, but a lot of people aren't like that.
And the partners don't know in most cases, especially what it comes to lesbians. It doesn't take much to fake attraction as a female.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
As always, there is more to the story, often sexual abuse is somewhere in their history or the family's history. I think the reality is that you are far too much attached to this issue on a personal level to ever see if objectively from our perspective.
Well, in her history there is no sexual abuse. I would argue for abuse of another kind in her case, but there is nothing sexual.
Maybe I am too attached. When you see good friends going through stuff like that simply because their parents are ignorant bigots, it tends to make one angry. Fact is, everyone sees things from their perspective. The trick is, being able to see it from others as well. You clearly have not learned that skill yet.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
You NEED to demonize us to feel good about your side. It's sad that you ran off a good poster like urban with the cheap tactic of goading him to talk about his personal life and then throwing down ridiculous judgement about someone's personal character.
I don't NEED to demonize anyone. My only "side" is decency. There are folks of all walks of life on my "side" including a large number of Christians.
If urban is too thin skinned to take being called out, he shouldn't be on here anyways. Fact is, we gave him plenty of time to tell us his side of things, and when he did, he still made it clear that he didn't give a rat's behind about gay people, and would do nothing to stand up for them. That isn't a judgment of his character, it is his own words. No judgment needed.
This is a summarization of studies on how genetics affect sexuality. But it is probably above your pay-level.
Warden, why you got to bring up science to poor Jeff? You know he doesn't believe in it unless he thinks it helps his argument...
Fact is, you don't need science if you know any number of gay people (which Jeff and his fundamentalist brethren clearly don't). I have quite a few in my life, both personally (family and friends) and professionally. They will all tell you that they knew they were gay since they were old enough to know such a thing. Just as most straight people knew at the same time in their life. No sexual abuse necessary either, Jeff...
Then you have people like myself, who are attracted to both sexes, but more so to men. Hence the reason I am happily married to my husband and have had a child with him. I had posters of Jonathan Taylor Thomas and Tyra Banks on my walls growing up... Think that confused people a little .
Anyways, there is no stand in for personal experience and simply talking to people who have been in the situation themselves. Jeff will never do that though, sadly.
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