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I also agree that special clothes for ministers puts them on a pedestal higher than the congregation and the same goes for choir members..It is kin to donning costumes for the play before the congregation that only involves a certain few..As for the congregation dressing up for God..This causes a few people who cannot afford to dress up to not come to church because they are afraid their clothing is not acceptable..When I was going to church, I never bought myself or my family new "Easter" outfits..It seemed sacrelige to me to begin worring about what to wear on Easter Sunday and some of the women would begin talking about their outfits weeks before the grand fashion show.. God was never concerned with our fancy clothing and dressing up to please Him..He is looking to our hearts, at our faith and at our very souls..This aboiut says it for chapter6 ..In Chapter 7, he talks about the origin of the church choir which I have pretty much already discussed..Again a trained , choir and songmaster are part of the characters on a stage to entertain the congregation..I feel that the psalms that we all love so much were spontaneous and from the hearts of inspired worshippers of God, and they edify, uplift, and teach us today, many milleniums after they were first uttered..People use the arguement based on the ot priesthood for our professional priests and other worship leaders today...They forget that the old laws and customs were ended on the cross..That Christ is the "high priest" and we are all priests, all part of the worship service, all having received special gifts of the Holy Spirit which were not given in the old covenant..I am on to review chapter eight, and will not comment on it until everyone else is ready..
Of course I have never been in the kind of service that the authors describe, so my argument could be an argument from ignorance, but honestly, I just couldn't see the 'big deal'.
I think as congregation sizes grow, someone must direct the flow of the service....someone who is in tune with the Spirit but someone all the same. It appears that no church larger than say 40 people could truly operate as the New Testament church did.
Any thoughts on that?
I know there is an amazing Sunday School guru, Josh Hunt.( You Can Double Your Class in Two Years or Less ) His conferences are amazing and he's a gifted speaker and there's many good articles on his website. If someone gets a chance, find a church he's talking at and visit.
Anyway, his thing is to take Sunday School or whatever home group/small group program you have in your church and grow it and divide it every two years. He has the thing down to practically a science and the story behind the idea and others within the faith that 'got' the idea at the same time is amazing. I truly believe God is behind the message.
It seems as though the authors describe a church that practically can't work in larger groups. 150 people together who 'each have a psalm, hymn, or word' just does not seem practical. While meeting in smaller groups and not having complete participation would seem uncomfortable and disconnected.
They capitalize on music and the worship team in this chapter and I'm not sure I can agree with them. I also don't think the reference in the section at the end about the group of folks in the OT who led worship can be so easily dismissed as 'Old Covenant', although from a technical side they are correct.
Anyway, you guys tell me what you think about 7.
Has anyone ever experienced one of the home churches strictly modeled after the NTC? Spontaneous song? Songs given by the Holy Spirit?
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When you have a few minutes:
I will say this. I have a CD by a guy named Jason Upton. On this CD(Faith) there is a song called 'Faith'. This song was recorded live and was supposedly given to the members of the band while on the stage. I believe God can do this and I believe Jason Upton is connected enough to be in a position to receive it.
It's not a 'jammin' or sing along song, it is, in fact, what I call worship. I have to focus on the words and the message and it's amazing how this song progresses and the Truth that is in it. If you get a chance, take a few minutes and listen....don't browse or read or anything else....just listen.
And I browsed 8 and 9 last night when I finished 7......and I think I'm about to get my socks knocked off
So I'm on 7 today and hope to get through 8 later today.
I couldn't wait to finish the book, so I finished it awhile back.. but I am scanning over the chapters again as we go over them. Yes, there are alot of rather unconventional points in the book!
If your pastor could read your thoughts (now) as you sat on your pew in church and listened to the choir on Sunday morning, what would he think?
Are you asking me just based on the choir singing?
LOL!
What I was meaning was ... what would the pastors of the participators in the Pagan Christianity book thread think if they could read the thoughts of their members, sitting in the pews Sunday morning, who have been reading an anti-pastor, anti-church, choir, Sunday-school book?
What I Was Meaning Was ... What Would The Pastors Of The Participators In The Pagan Christianity Book Thread Think If They Could Read The Thoughts Of Their Members, Sitting In The Pews Sunday Morning, Who Have Been Reading An Anti-pastor, Anti-church, Choir, Sunday-school Book?
Wow!!! (just kiddin)
Well with my thoughts, this book has been good, opened some good things in my life......as any book I read, I feel we should always filter things.
But I believe the Pastor would find me thinking the same as before I read this book. That is worshipping God in my heart. My heart is seeking Him as any day whether it is Sunday morning or Monday morning....The book has not changed that!
Truly, I'm not trying to sound spiritual, but answering with honesty....
Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 06-05-2008 at 08:24 AM..
Alpha, about the size of a home church....Maybe that was in "the plan" to keep congregations of worshippers small in order to help maintain focus on Him..Maybe God knew that in a large crowd there would be more room for division and order and would eventually lead to what the modern church has become..Imo a smaller group will not need leadership other than the Holy Spirit to lead the worship..Just an opinion I have been running with ever since I read this book..I am really trying to put myself (in my feeble mind) into a home worship environment with no legalism, no modern doctrin, and no adaptations to worship other than what is taught in the bible..It feels good..
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God was never concerned with our fancy clothing and dressing up to please Him..He is looking to our hearts, at our faith and at our very souls..This aboiut says it for chapter6 ..In Chapter 7, he talks about the origin of the church choir which I have pretty much already discussed..Again a trained , choir and songmaster are part of the characters on a stage to entertain the congregation..I feel that the psalms that we all love so much were spontaneous and from the hearts of inspired worshippers of God, and they edify, uplift, and teach us today, many milleniums after they were first uttered..People use the arguement based on the ot priesthood for our professional priests and other worship leaders today...They forget that the old laws and customs were ended on the cross..That Christ is the "high priest" and we are all priests, all part of the worship service, all having received special gifts of the Holy Spirit which were not given in the old covenant..I am on to review chapter eight, and will not comment on it until everyone else is ready..
