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The phrase that has been translated as "believe in" is pisteuo eis . . . it is used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul. This is what Paul referred to as the "law written in the hearts" even of unbelievers . . . who are a law unto themselves. As Paul states it in Romans 2:14
. . . When the Gentiles who have no law do by nature what the law prescribes, these having no law are a law unto themselves. They show the work of the law written in their hearts. Their conscience bears witness to them, even when conflicting thoughts accuse or defend them.
No one says God doesn't hold us accountable for our un-love . . . but having what you consider the wrong belief is not subject to accountability. God has no ego needs that must be assuaged by our fawning over Him or His Son. "Belief on/into" His Son is an inner conviction to Christ-like attitudes toward all human beings that results when we listen to Jesus' Holy Spirit within guiding us to what God has "written in our hearts." It is when we DO what Christ commands and "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. THAT is the "believe on" Jesus that matters . . . not what you proclaim to believe in. Belief is an inner conviction that guides what we do . . . it is NOT a CHOICE. It is what it is.
No one who rejects the gospel has eternal life. That is what it is. God holds man responsible to respond to the gospel through faith in Christ. Those who do not will spend the eternal future in the lake of fire. Again, that is what it is.
I find it extremely sad that in the "Christianity" forum this poll even gets discussed. Yes. He's the only way.
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Originally Posted by Alpha8207
That's just a label over the door here. There's a LOT (maybe even most!) of non-Christian ideas held forth as truth here.
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Originally Posted by jimmiej
Ain't that the truth!
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Originally Posted by Vizio
I know. And most people aren't Biblically literate enough to understand that.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
That is YOUR view of what Christian ideas ARE, Alpha. Unfortunately, far too many Christians possess a similar hubris about THEIR views of Christian ideas. What is Christian is determined by Christ and Christ alone . . . NOT any particular participants in this forum.
What you call Biblically literate is probably rote indoctrination into the "precepts and doctrines of men" . . . NOT biblical scholarship and knowledge-based interpretation and exegesis. Besides . . . God did not make it so we would need to become scholars to understand Him or what He wants from us. That would be absurd. What my extensive scholarship revealed to me was the utter uselessness of it. God's message to us is simple and His requirements of us are too . . . "Love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. It isn't rocket science! Men have made it complicated for their purposes.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 02-26-2013 at 04:13 PM..
What you call Biblically literate is probably rote indoctrination into the "precepts and doctrines of men" . . . NOT biblical scholarship and knowledge-based interpretation and exegesis. Besides . . . God did not make it so we would need to become scholars to understand Him or what He wants from us. That would be absurd. What my extensive scholarship revealed to me was the utter uselessness of it. God's message to us is simple and His requirements of us are too . . . "Love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. It isn't rocket science! Men have made it complicated for their purposes.
What you call Biblically literate is probably rote indoctrination into the "precepts and doctrines of men" . . . NOT biblical scholarship and knowledge-based interpretation and exegesis. Besides . . . God did not make it so we would need to become scholars to understand Him or what He wants from us. That would be absurd. What my extensive scholarship revealed to me was the utter uselessness of it. God's message to us is simple and His requirements of us are too . . . "Love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. It isn't rocket science! Men have made it complicated for their purposes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
What you're decribing is sanctification.
And what you are refusing to understand is that our sanctification is the ONLY thing that is in our hands.Our salvation has NOTHING to do with US! There is nothing we need to do and nothing we can do to affect our salvation. Christ took care of that, period. It is finished.
What you call Biblically literate is probably rote indoctrination into the "precepts and doctrines of men" . . .
Like what you keep spouting off? Sorry Doc...your "gospel" is all legalism. I'd rather trust in Jesus as my mediator to save me from the wrath of God and a fiery hell than to try to earn my way there by loving everyone. I can't do that.
Like what you keep spouting off? Sorry Doc...your "gospel" is all legalism. I'd rather trust in Jesus as my mediator to save me from the wrath of God and a fiery hell than to try to earn my way there by loving everyone. I can't do that.
Vizio, your idea of a wrathful God sending people to an eternal torture chamber has clouded your vision and left you with a very heavy veil that needs to be lifted. You don't "earn your way" anywhere by loving others. By that thinking alone, you are part of the "depart from me...I never knew you" group. Don't you see? It is plain as the nose on your face. You just said "..try to EARN MY WAY THERE.. BY LOVING EVERYONE".
It is clear, that in this moment, you are NOT knowing God, because you are not knowing LOVE. Do you understand this?
There is something that you are NOT seeing.
Your idea of "love" in your post above is NOT love. It is selfishness.
Your veils are showing, Vizio.
It is time to lift them.
Like what you keep spouting off? Sorry Doc...your "gospel" is all legalism. I'd rather trust in Jesus as my mediator to save me from the wrath of God and a fiery hell than to try to earn my way there by loving everyone. I can't do that.
It is abundantly clear that you and others believe that Jesus came to save us from a fiery hell and that THAT is what you believe SALVATION is all about. If you don't even understand what you need to be saved FROM, you certainly will not understand what you are saved FOR. This is the legacy and the tragedy of the deep penetration of the ET dogma into the farthest depths of the minds of men and society at large. It is a spiritually deadly prison you have been locked into and have no apparent interest of being set free from. Surely you can understand that if you are wrong about this, you can do NOTHING of God's work in this world. You will be saved as by "fire" but everything else you thought to do to build upon the foundation of Christ will be burnt up. If you are not motivated by pure love, everything you do is vain.
That is YOUR view of what Christian ideas ARE, Alpha. Unfortunately, far too many Christians possess a similar hubris about THEIR views of Christian ideas. What is Christian is determined by Christ and Christ alone . . . NOT any particular participants in this forum.
No, it's scriptures view. You know, that scripture that you pick what's Christ-like and what part isn't. Many people (esp present company) have twisted and cherry picked what's applicable and trust worthy and what part isn't. To the Christian (not self-proclaiming but one who's fruit is evident), the truth of scriptures and the absolute necessity of Christ Jesus as LORD and SAVIOR isn't even up for debate. A passage comes to mind, those with ears will hear:
We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority.
Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from the Lord. But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.
They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness. But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—an animal without speech—who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”(II Peter 1:19-2:22)
I know people like the ones mentioned in that scripture. They introduce new and dangerous doctrines. Saying Christ is "a" way makes Jesus a liar. Universalism makes Jesus a liar. Saying there's multiple ways to heaven makes Jesus a liar.
The Jesus that IS; The Jesus that has been since before time began; The Jesus that IS GOD and is the Great I AM. The Jesus that is THE Jesus....never lied. So that Jesus must be a different Jesus than the Jesus that paid for my sins and is worthy of my worship.
As an aside, I think it's interesting that those with certain beliefs would call God a failure because in both of the instances of righteous destruction mentioned in that trust worthy passage, only a "few" were saved. Yet that's exactly what those twisters of scripture like to tell us means my God is a failure.
What you call Biblically literate is probably rote indoctrination into the "precepts and doctrines of men" . . . NOT biblical scholarship and knowledge-based interpretation and exegesis. Besides . . . God did not make it so we would need to become scholars to understand Him or what He wants from us. That would be absurd. What my extensive scholarship revealed to me was the utter uselessness of it. God's message to us is simple and His requirements of us are too . . . "Love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. It isn't rocket science! Men have made it complicated for their purposes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
What you're decribing is sanctification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
And what you are refusing to understand is that our sanctification is the ONLY thing that is in our hands.Our salvation has NOTHING to do with US! There is nothing we need to do and nothing we can do to affect our salvation. Christ took care of that, period. It is finished.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Like what you keep spouting off? Sorry Doc...your "gospel" is all legalism. I'd rather trust in Jesus as my mediator to save me from the wrath of God and a fiery hell than to try to earn my way there by loving everyone. I can't do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow.
Vizio, your idea of a wrathful God sending people to an eternal torture chamber has clouded your vision and left you with a very heavy veil that needs to be lifted. You don't "earn your way" anywhere by loving others. By that thinking alone, you are part of the "depart from me...I never knew you" group. Don't you see? It is plain as the nose on your face. You just said "..try to EARN MY WAY THERE.. BY LOVING EVERYONE".
It is clear, that in this moment, you are NOT knowing God, because you are not knowing LOVE. Do you understand this?
There is something that you are NOT seeing.
Your idea of "love" in your post above is NOT love. It is selfishness.
Your veils are showing, Vizio.
It is time to lift them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong
It is abundantly clear that you and others believe that Jesus came to save us from a fiery hell and that THAT is what you believe SALVATION is all about. If you don't even understand what you need to be saved FROM, you certainly will not understand what you are saved FOR. This is the legacy and the tragedy of the deep penetration of the ET dogma into the farthest depths of the minds of men and society at large. It is a spiritually deadly prison you have been locked into and have no apparent interest of being set free from. Surely you can understand that if you are wrong about this, you can do NOTHING of God's work in this world. You will be saved as by "fire" but everything else you thought to do to build upon the foundation of Christ will be burnt up. If you are not motivated by pure love, everything you do is vain.
I was going to respond . . . but you have done an excellent job, my sisters . . . making it unnecessary. Thank you.
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