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This might be very touchy but does the bible speak on..
What happens to someone if they commit suicide?
Does the crime fit the punishment if someone has a horrible life..
And ends it to spent eternity in hell?
People commit suicide for many reasons. Some may do it for religious reasons like the suicide bombers, some may do it to get back at someone. Some are sick like an older person who may be tired, their bodies riddled with cancer and may be are unable to pay their hospital bills. Some may be depressed, mentally ill, and unable to see any other way out of their situation. And think about what caused those to jump from the Twin Towers.
God is our judge but I don't believe in an eternal hell either because there are too many scriptures which speak of the final restoration of all to God. God is agape love and does what is best for His creatures. He will wipe all tears from their eyes, including those who may have committed suicide for some of the above reasons.
From what I understand views about the afterlife differ among Jews, just as they do with Christians.
Quote:
However, for Jews, gehenna—while certainly a terribly unpleasant place—is not hell. The majority of rabbinic thought maintains that people are not tortured in hell forever; the longest that one can be there is said to be 12 months. It is a spiritual forge where the soul is purified for its eventual ascent to Gan Eden [Heaven], and where all imperfections are purged.
God's word is true, there's no skipping through the daisies - a place of burning where there is no escaping is still a place where the refined will be brought forth. It's the dross that will not escape.
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 10-13-2008 at 02:59 PM..
God gives us free choice. To say we are now chained to salvation is against what free choice is.
Either we accept Him and His teachings or we deny Him with our actions.
The New Testament doesn't teach that we should love in words...it says we need to love BY ACTIONS.
By our ACTIONS we refuse/reject the free gift that was offered to us.
This is why we SHALL be saved. It is a fight to the end.
Committing suicide is giving up.
Matt 6:35-36 Rather, love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them, expecting nothing in return. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kindeven to ungrateful and evil people.
Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."
G3629
οἰκτίρμων
oiktirmōn
oyk-tir'-mone
From G3627; compassionate: - merciful, of tender mercy.
1. The first 3000 people that were saved were Jews. Jesus is Jewish...the apostles were Jewish...the Bible was written by Jews...and it even says the oracles of God were given unto the Jews.
Everyone who was a Christian was Jewish. There were a few that were Gentiles. They called them 'Christians' because they followed Jesus Christ.
2. Baptisms at infancy is a moot point. Baptisms were done before Jesus, and after Him.
3. You can't say EARLY Christians DID not believe in hellfire. Did you not know that the EARLY Christians were 99.9% Jewish? They ALREADY believe in hellfire.
4. Beliefs need to 'backed up' by the verses not your personal conviction, emotion, or interpration.
5. You're confusing Hell with the lake of fire.
6. Most JW don't accept Jews because they know that a common Jewish person will debunk the name Jehovah. Most don't even know that there was only ONE Jew/Hebrew that knew God's real name. The common Jewish people didnt know it, and neither did the priests. It was only given to the High Priest who would ONLY INVOKE God's name ONCE PER YEAR! They would pass the name down to next High Priest. Of course we can go into the Hebrew alphabet that debunks the name or pronunciation of Jehovah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada
The difference is that Jehovah's Witnesses are made up of almost entirely converted ones...very few are 'born into' the faith. One of the reasons for this is that we don't practice infant baptism...we believe strongly that a person should come to an accurate knowledge of God's word before making a dedication. I did that. So I can confidently say that I only feel this way because I HAVE studied the bible.
And we're not talking about the Jewish faith here, we're talking Christianity. Early christians did not believe in hellfire...please feel free to research it.
My beliefs are 'backed up' by the simple fact that there is absolutely no reason to believe that the illustration concerning the rich man and Lazarus is to be taken literally. If so, as I mentioned in a prior post and was somehow overlooked, not only would those in hell be able to freely converse w/ those in heaven, but a mere drop of water would suffice to ease the suffering of eternal fiery torment. Gehenna was not a place of 'eternal torment.' It was literally a place where refuse was thrown to be destroyed. Every scripture you use is referring to the ultimate end of those who defy God, everlasting death.
I don't know how to make it any clearer than that. You say I haven't rebutted any of the scriptures you quoted...that's because I have no intention of doing that. They're from the bible and they're absolute truth. And I agree w/ them wholeheartedly.
God does not group our sins into departments, God's grace is not just for acceptable sins, does God forgive suicide, yes I believe He does, if that person ever accepted Jesus death on the cross as payment for their sins and asked Him into their life, they are forgiven.
Romans 8:1 "There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus".
The difference is that Jehovah's Witnesses are made up of almost entirely converted ones...very few are 'born into' the faith. One of the reasons for this is that we don't practice infant baptism...we believe strongly that a person should come to an accurate knowledge of God's word before making a dedication. I did that. So I can confidently say that I only feel this way because I HAVE studied the bible.
And we're not talking about the Jewish faith here, we're talking Christianity. Early christians did not believe in hellfire...please feel free to research it.
My beliefs are 'backed up' by the simple fact that there is absolutely no reason to believe that the illustration concerning the rich man and Lazarus is to be taken literally. If so, as I mentioned in a prior post and was somehow overlooked, not only would those in hell be able to freely converse w/ those in heaven, but a mere drop of water would suffice to ease the suffering of eternal fiery torment. Gehenna was not a place of 'eternal torment.' It was literally a place where refuse was thrown to be destroyed. Every scripture you use is referring to the ultimate end of those who defy God, everlasting death.
I don't know how to make it any clearer than that. You say I haven't rebutted any of the scriptures you quoted...that's because I have no intention of doing that. They're from the bible and they're absolute truth. And I agree w/ them wholeheartedly.
If my memory serves me correctly didn't Jdubs believe that Jesus was God the Father. I believe they did.
13. You can't say EARLY Christians DID not believe in hellfire. Did you not know that the EARLY Christians were 99.9% Jewish? They ALREADY believe in hellfire.
4. Beliefs need to 'backed up' by the verses not your personal conviction, emotion, or interpration.
5. You're confusing Hell with the lake of fire.
6. Most JW don't accept Jews because they know that a common Jewish person will debunk the name Jehovah. Most don't even know that there was only ONE Jew/Hebrew that knew God's real name. The common Jewish people didnt know it, and neither did the priests. It was only given to the High Priest who would ONLY INVOKE God's name ONCE PER YEAR! They would pass the name down to next High Priest. Of course we can go into the Hebrew alphabet that debunks the name or pronunciation of Jehovah.
Why do you feel we don't 'accept jews'? Jehovah's Witnesses are made up of converted members of almost every known faith. And I'll not discuss the name of Jehovah here in this thread. It's off topic.
You still haven't shown me why you feel the scriptures you feel ARE literal and I've made it clear why I feel they are not. So we are at an impass. The bible discusses the condition of the dead: it says in Ecc 9 that they are conscious of nothing at all. It also makes it quite clear in the book of Acts that Jesus was in hell for three days and nights. This simply does not make sense unless hell is referring to the grave. Jonah cried out of the belly of 'hell', a fish's belly that could likely become his grave. Gehenna was not an eternal fire...it was a place of destruction. These are my reasons. I know my God. And he is not a God who exacts everlasting torment on anyone.
What is the lake of fire if not literal hell? I thought everything in the bible was literal?
Oh, and just for the record, I don't believe this discussion is off topic since the question was asked if those who commit suicide go to hell. We are discussing hell, are we not?
What was the reason for the parable of the "rich man and Lazarus" then?
The "rich man" lived in luxury had good things, while he did nothing for Lazarus who was poor and and a beggar .......
Quote:
The great difficulty with many in reading this scripture is that, though they regard it as a parable, they reason on it and draw conclusions from it as though it were a literal statement. To regard it as a literal statement involves several absurdities; for instance, that the rich man went to "hell" because he had enjoyed many earthly blessings and gave nothing but crumbs to Lazarus. Not a word is said about his wickedness. Again, Lazarus was blessed, not because he was a sincere child of God, full of faith and trust, not because he was good, but simply because he was poor and sick. If this be interpreted literally, the only logical lesson to be drawn from it is, that unless we are poor beggars full of sores, we will never enter into future bliss; and that if now we wear any fine linen and purple, and have plenty to eat every day, we are sure of future torment. Again, the coveted place of favor is "Abraham's bosom"; and if the whole statement be literal, the bosom must also be literal, and it surely would not hold very many of earth's millions of sick and poor.
But why consider absurdities? As a parable, it is easy of interpretation. In a parable the thing said is never the thing meant. We know this from our Lord's own explanations of his parables. When he said "wheat," he meant "children of the kingdom"; when he said "tares," he meant "the children of the devil"; when he said "reapers" his servants were to be understood, etc. (`Matt. 13`.) The same classes were represented by different symbols in different parables. Thus the "wheat" of one parable correspond to the "faithful servants," and the "wise virgins" of others. So, in this parable, the "rich man" represents a class, and "Lazarus" represents another class.
In attempting to expound a parable such as this, an explanation of which the Lord does not furnish us, modesty in expressing our opinion regarding it is certainly appropriate. We therefore offer the following explanation without any attempt to force our views upon the reader, except so far as his own truth-enlightened judgment may commend them as in accord with God's Word and plan. To our understanding, Abraham represented God, and the "rich man" represented the Jewish nation. At the time of the utterance of the parable, and for a long time previous, the Jews had "fared sumptuously every day"--being the especial recipients of God's favors. As Paul says: "What advantage, then, hath the Jew? Much every way: chiefly, because to them were committed the oracles of God [Law and Prophecy]." The promises to Abraham and David and their organization as a typical Kingdom of God invested that people with royalty, as represented by the rich man's "purple." The typical sacrifices of the Law constituted them, in a typical sense, a holy (righteous) nation, represented by the rich man's "fine linen,"--symbolic of righteousness. --`Rev. 19:8`.
Lazarus represented the outcasts from divine favor under the Law, who, sin-sick, hungered and thirsted after righteousness. "Publicans and sinners" of Israel, seeking a better life, and truth-hungry Gentiles who were "feeling after God" constituted the Lazarus class. These, at the time of the utterance of this parable, were entirely destitute of those special divine blessings which Israel enjoyed. They lay at the gate of the rich man. No rich promises of royalty were theirs; not even typically were they cleansed; but, in moral sickness, pollution and sin, they were companions of "dogs." Dogs were regarded as detestable creatures in those days, and the typically clean Jew called the outsiders "heathen" and "dogs," and would never eat with them, nor marry, nor have any dealings with them.--`John 4:9`. ..............
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