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Old 01-02-2009, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,873,031 times
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ILNC says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
We should be baptized, Jesus commanded it, but there are no Scripture that says you must be baptized to be saved, only the blood Jesus can save. There is no saving power in baptism.
God says:
Mark 16:16...He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but the that believes not shall be damned.

1 Peter 3:21...The like figure whereunto even baptism does also now save us...

He also said on baptism...

Romans 6:3... Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
So how does one come into contact with His blood/death?

Col. 2:12...Buried with him in baptism, wherein you are also risen with him through the faith of the operation of god, who hath raised Him from the dead.
Baptism is a likeness to Jesus' death, buriral, and resurrection. We are dead in our sins, buried in water for forgiveness of our sins, and raised to a new life.

Galatians 3:27...For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
So when have we put on Christ?

Acts 2:38-41...And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him." And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation." So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
What happens when we're baptized? What happened that day when they were baptized?

Acts 22:16...And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away they sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Again, what washes away our sins? And how do we call on the name of the Lord?

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Old 01-02-2009, 07:34 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,641 posts, read 30,253,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
ILNC says:


God says:
Mark 16:16...He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but the that believes not shall be damned.

1 Peter 3:21...The like figure whereunto even baptism does also now save us...

He also said on baptism...

Romans 6:3... Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
So how does one come into contact with His blood/death?

Col. 2:12...Buried with him in baptism, wherein you are also risen with him through the faith of the operation of god, who hath raised Him from the dead.
Baptism is a likeness to Jesus' death, buriral, and resurrection. We are dead in our sins, buried in water for forgiveness of our sins, and raised to a new life.

Galatians 3:27...For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
So when have we put on Christ?

Acts 2:38-41...And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him." And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation." So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
What happens when we're baptized? What happened that day when they were baptized?

Acts 22:16...And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away they sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Again, what washes away our sins? And how do we call on the name of the Lord?

And here is ALL of 1 Peter 3:21 "And this is the picture of baptism, which now saves you by the power of Jesus Christ's resurrection. Baptism is not a removal of dirt from your body, it is an appeal to God from a clean conscience".
In baptism we identify with Jesus, it is NOT the baptism that saves us but faith in Jesus, in His death and resurrection, that ALONE is what saves. Yes we should be baptism, but it is NOT a requirement for salvation.
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,873,031 times
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There are two sayings that people who do not believe baptism is necessary for salvation always say that really bothers me.

First... "All you have to do is believe and ask Jesus into your heart and you're saved (some will add just say the sinner's prayer)". They never back this up with scripture because there isn't any.

Second...They say baptism is a work, therefore cannot be required. Well aren't believing and asking Jesus into your heart works also? Do you not also believe one must repent? Isn't that a work? If there was no part left to us considering salvation, then everyone would just automatically be saved. No believing, confessing, repenting, baptizing, sinner's prayer, nothing. God has given us a gift, but we do have to accept it, in HIS way.

I am NOT saying we have any part of the actual saving of our souls, that was totally Jesus' shed blood. I AM saying we have to obey in order to receive that salvation.

Do you think that Namaan and others thought Namaan had anything to do with the cleansing of his leprosy, just because he obeyed Elisha (God's messenger) and dipped in the Jordan 7 times? Or do you think glory went to the Father where it belonged? Namaan believed in God after this took place. Namaan at first thought it ridiculous to have to dip 7 times, he thought it should be easier than that...but that's what Elisha said he must do, and he wasn't cleansed until he did it.

Same goes for us today. No matter how ridiculous you think dipping ourselves in water is in order to receive salvation, that's what God said you must do.
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,873,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
And here is ALL of 1 Peter 3:21 "And this is the picture of baptism, which now saves you by the power of Jesus Christ's resurrection. Baptism is not a removal of dirt from your body, it is an appeal to God from a clean conscience".
In baptism we identify with Jesus, it is NOT the baptism that saves us but faith in Jesus, in His death and resurrection, that ALONE is what saves. Yes we should be baptism, but it is NOT a requirement for salvation.
I understand where you're coming from when you say it's not the actual baptism that saves us, you're saying the water has no power. I agree...it is Jesus' blood that has the power. I'm saying it's when we are baptized is when we come into contact with Jesus' shed blood that does have all the power. (See above scriptures).

You also say that faith ALONE is what saves, and yet Jesus said he who believes (faith) AND is baptized shall be saved.
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:18 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,629,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
There are two sayings that people who do not believe baptism is necessary for salvation always say that really bothers me.

First... "All you have to do is believe and ask Jesus into your heart and you're saved (some will add just say the sinner's prayer)". They never back this up with scripture because there isn't any.

Second...They say baptism is a work, therefore cannot be required. Well aren't believing and asking Jesus into your heart works also? Do you not also believe one must repent? Isn't that a work? If there was no part left to us considering salvation, then everyone would just automatically be saved. No believing, confessing, repenting, baptizing, sinner's prayer, nothing. God has given us a gift, but we do have to accept it, in HIS way.

I am NOT saying we have any part of the actual saving of our souls, that was totally Jesus' shed blood. I AM saying we have to obey in order to receive that salvation.

Do you think that Namaan and others thought Namaan had anything to do with the cleansing of his leprosy, just because he obeyed Elisha (God's messenger) and dipped in the Jordan 7 times? Or do you think glory went to the Father where it belonged? Namaan believed in God after this took place. Namaan at first thought it ridiculous to have to dip 7 times, he thought it should be easier than that...but that's what Elisha said he must do, and he wasn't cleansed until he did it.

Same goes for us today. No matter how ridiculous you think dipping ourselves in water is in order to receive salvation, that's what God said you must do.
Jamie, you beat me to it! I was going to point out Naaman's cleansing of leprosy. It was not the water that cleansed him, it was the obedience to God's command! It is the obedience that does all the things that are promised to us when we are baptized.
Refusing to do so is disobedience...plain and simple. It is a lack of faith in what God has commanded, and in all of the promises that go with it.
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:27 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,641 posts, read 30,253,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
I understand where you're coming from when you say it's not the actual baptism that saves us, you're saying the water has no power. I agree...it is Jesus' blood that has the power. I'm saying it's when we are baptized is when we come into contact with Jesus' shed blood that does have all the power. (See above scriptures).

You also say that faith ALONE is what saves, and yet Jesus said he who believes (faith) AND is baptized shall be saved.
Baptism should be a part of every believers life, but it its not a requirement for salvation. Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God".
Romans 3:22 "We are made right in God's sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done".
Yes it all starts with faith in Jesus and what He did at the cross, by saying baptism is a requirement you trying to add to what Jesus did at the cross.
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Central US
852 posts, read 1,198,945 times
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Default We all agree! :)

okay, I think there are several of us saying we must be saved and baptised...the only difference is our reasoning. I have mine...others have theirs....none of us are saying that baptism isn't needed.

I thought there was a lot more people who actually believed that baptism wasn't needed. I thought there was a lot more people who thought themselves saved, but they hadn't been baptised. So maybe my question that started this thread wasn't needed...I don't think we've heard from a single person who wasn't baptised and also believed that they didn't need to be.
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Old 01-03-2009, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,873,031 times
Reputation: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Baptism should be a part of every believers life, but it its not a requirement for salvation. Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God".
Romans 3:22 "We are made right in God's sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done".
Yes it all starts with faith in Jesus and what He did at the cross, by saying baptism is a requirement you trying to add to what Jesus did at the cross.
You and I are just going to disagree about baptism.

But I have to ask, what translation are you using when you quoted Romans 3:22? I have never heard it translated that way. I believed you used NIV to quote Ephesians, but then changed translations. Why?

NIV... Romans 3:22... This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference.

The above bolded sentence is not in the NIV version, nor is it in the Greek. Whatever version you used added it. Of course, even giving credit to whoever added that, at least they put "we can be" and not "we will be".

The above verse is right, of course. But not all who believe will be saved. The demons believe. Many believe but refuse to repent. You have to take the whole bible into account.
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Old 01-03-2009, 08:58 AM
 
Location: God's Country
21,641 posts, read 30,253,245 times
Reputation: 30179
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
You and I are just going to disagree about baptism.

But I have to ask, what translation are you using when you quoted Romans 3:22? I have never heard it translated that way. I believed you used NIV to quote Ephesians, but then changed translations. Why?

NIV... Romans 3:22... This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference.

The above bolded sentence is not in the NIV version, nor is it in the Greek. Whatever version you used added it. Of course, even giving credit to whoever added that, at least they put "we can be" and not "we will be".


The above verse is right, of course. But not all who believe will be saved. The demons believe. Many believe but refuse to repent. You have to take the whole bible into account.
Yes we can agree to disagree and leave it at that For Romans 3:22 I used the New Living Translation. I use that and the NIV.
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Canada
589 posts, read 1,349,150 times
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I believe Baptism is a test of faith. In the Biblical account of the bronze snake in Numbers 21:6-9 is another example. Anyone bitten by a snake will be healed just by looking at the bronze snake. God can heal anybody but he wants them to take the initiative to be healed. It was that simple but probably some did not do it and died.

Numbers 21: 6Then the Lord sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. 7The people came to Moses and said, "We sinned when we spoke against the Lord and against you. Pray that the Lord will take the snakes away from us." So Moses prayed for the people.
8The Lord said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live." 9So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived.
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