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If Lazarus had no choice but to "rise" and "come forth", does not that set a precedence for us, being that we are dead in our sins before God bestowed on us the grace to rise to new life ourselves? Do we discount the "measure of faith" he gives to men (Rom 12:3), or will we maintain control until He proves us wrong?
I don't like to be proven wrong.
The fact is most Christians do exactly wat of what Paul warns us against. They think of themselves more highly than they ought to.
Romans 12:3
For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.
The fact is most Christians do exactly wat of what Paul warns us against. They think of themselves more highly than they ought to.
Romans 12:3
For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.
Strawman... I hold to Calvinist doctrine and Calvinist has the doctrine of "Total depravity"....anything like that in your universalist dogma?
You assumption is not only weak but inaccurate and bizarre......Because we see it in scripture we think we hold ourselves higher than we ought to?......Your use of that verse is beyond disgusting, that is for young believers who were being taught sound judgment and humility.
A believer who puts their trust in Christ, surrenders, dies to self, repents, admits they are wretched and undone think themselves higher than they ought to?????!!!!!!! Nice trick
I think you refuse to see we have a choice because then it puts a damper on ALL going to heaven afterall if God is solely responsible He couldn't send anyone to hell.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 12-17-2009 at 11:48 AM..
I hold to Calvinist doctrine and Calvinist has the doctrine of "Total depravity"....anything like that in your universalist dogma?
You assumption is not only weak but inaccurate and bizarre......Because we see it in scripture we think we hold ourselves higher than we ought to?......Your use of that verse is beyond disgusting, that is for young believers who were being taught sound judgment and humility.
A believer who puts their trust in Christ, surrenders, dies to self, admits they are wreteched and undone think themselves higher than they ought to?????!!!!!!! Nice trick
I think you refuse to see we have a choice because then it puts a damper on ALL going to heaven afterall if God is solely responsible He couldn't send anyoneto hell.
Fundy - I'm confused. You seem to agree with what we're saying, yet you call it straw (?)
Fundy - I'm confused. You seem to agree with what we're saying, yet you call it straw (?)
Lazarus could only obey, we seem to agree on it.
Lol,...L Elmer your arguement goes in the way of exclusive election thus that Jesus seeks those he wishes to save. Not my opion but it seems to be yours.
Fundy - I'm confused. You seem to agree with what we're saying, yet you call it straw (?)
Lazarus could only obey, we seem to agree on it.
What I call a "strawman" is how Ironmaw uses what we see in scripture to somehow twist a verse to use against us in that we think higher of ourselves than we ought to when we clearly see in scripture that we are responsible for our salvation.
Lol,...L Elmer your arguement goes in the way of exclusive election thus that Jesus seeks those he wishes to save. Not my opion but it seems to be yours.
"Exclusion election" no - picture all of creation in a soup line, with each recipient giving bread to next - that's closer to how I see it.
Those in the "back of the line" will hear and feel they have no hope, but the Giver has the longest arms you could imagine.
What I call a "strawman" is how Ironmaw uses what we see in scripture to somehow twist a verse to use against us in that we think higher of ourselves than we ought to when we clearly see in scripture that we are responsible for our salvation.
Fundie ... Your saying that you are responsible for your salvation is the same as you saying that you saved yourself.
If you're responsible for making a decision, then you are the one who receives either the glory or the condemnation for that decision.
To say that you are responsible for your salvation, is to take the glory from God and place it at your own feet.
If it is god who is responsible for our decisions, than it is God who takes the glory and the condemnation for our decisions.
Guess what fundie? God took the condemnation for our decisions to sin in the death of Christ and his condemnation for the whole world, and God will take the glory for our inevitable decision to believe in him in the end.
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