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Try reading what I wrote. If you had comprehended what I said, you would have never asked any of those three questions.
Final answer?
Quote:
Read the post, read the links. I didn't post them just to take up space. Try and understand what is being said. Right at the very beginning of the post I gave two verses that make it clear what God thinks about human righteousness.
I use the NASV as well as the kJV. Also a Greek/English Interlinear Bible.
So God, our Father made us in His image so that we would not be righteous?
Yet also tells us to go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance and faith toward God .... etc...
And doesn't provide the way, that we might overcome sin?
There is work involved in growing into the divine nature.
Salvation is nothing to go on about, the walk is everything.
So God, our Father made us in His image so that we would not be righteous?
Yet also tells us to go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance and faith toward God .... etc...
And doesn't provide the way, that we might overcome sin?
There is work involved in growing into the divine nature.
Salvation is nothing to go on about, the walk is everything.
By their fruits, ye shall know them.
godspeed,
freedom
I'm in agreement with you Freedom.....salvation is not cheap, free or easy....we are to live in obedience to God. Jesus was crystal clear in his parables that salvation can be LOST if one does not produce fruit and those who teach otherwise do so to the detriment and destruction of those they teach.
Isaiah 64:6 tells us what God thinks of human righteousness. ''For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment. (Literally menstrual rags). In Gods sight, the best of human righteousness is no better then used menstrual rags.
I always thought the 'filthy rags' statement means that righteous deeds done by unbelievers are like filthy rags in Gods eyes. If someone is as rich as Donald Trump and does some good with his money, without faith his deeds are still like filty rags in Gods eyes. You can't buy you way into heaven, because the only way is thorough Christ. In the other hand the Bible encourages believers to perform good deeds, or 'works', so it can't be that God would consider their deeds as filthy rags.
Other that that I agree with you in that works is not a pre-requisite for entry. But how do you want to arrive in the harbour of Heaven? In a little dingy which barely floats, or in a shiny super yacht reserved to bring in mighty men/women of God?
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 01-11-2010 at 06:34 AM..
Salvation is a free gift, but that free gift can be returned through disobedience. If you obey God, you are a child of God; if you disobey God, then you're a child of the devil. There's no such thing as "Once saved, always saved". If there was, then why would we need to examine ourselves before partaking in Holy Communion? Paul is speaking to the Church.
1 Corinthians 11
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
That's a common question, but I'd like for you to define the kind of disobedience that will result in the gift of eternal life being 'returned', whatever that means.
Since everyone sins, including believers, who then can enter heaven?
I always thought the 'filthy rags' statement means that righteous deeds done by unbelievers are like filthy rags in Gods eyes. If someone is as rich as Donald Trump and does some good with his money, without faith his deeds are still like filty rags in Gods eyes. You can't buy you way into heaven, because the only way is thorough Christ. In the other hand the Bible encourages believers to perform good deeds, or 'works', so it can't be that God would consider their deeds as filthy rags.
Other that that I agree with you in that works is not a pre-requisite for entry. But how do you want to arrive in the harbour of Heaven? In a little dingy which barely floats, or in a shiny super yacht reserved to bring in mighty men/women of God?
No. Works done by a believer who is filled with the Holy Spirit are not works of human righteousness, but rather, are works that at the judgment seat of Christ will be found to be 'gold, silver, and precious stones'. These works are rewardable (1 Cor. 3:12-15; 2 Cor. 5:10; Rom. 14:10-12). BUT, works done by a believer who is out of fellowship through sin, are works of human righteousness and at the judgment seat of Christ will be found to be 'wood, hay, and stubble' and will be burned up. For the believer the issue is, are your works done in the power of the Holy Spirit, or are they done in the power of your old sin nature-human righteousness.
Unbelievers can only produce human good. A believer can produce either human good from his sin nature, or divine good through the power of the Holy Spirit. It is a matter of the use of the prinicple of 1 John 1:9 for the restoration of fellowship and the filling of the Holy Spirit.
That's a common question, but I'd like for you to define the kind of disobedience that will result in the gift of eternal life being 'returned', whatever that means.
Since everyone sins, including believers, who then can enter heaven?
I believe it refers to disobedience which are habitual (daily/ongoing)and deliberate (or 'willful' as someone put it on the other thread), not occational slips, which no one can avoid.
I believe it refers to disobedience which are habitual (daily/ongoing)and deliberate (or 'willful' as someone put it on the other thread), not occational slips, which no one can avoid.
Define habitual vs. occasional, please.
If I get drunk once a year, and do it every year, am I an occasional drunk (and therefore safe) or am I a habitual one (in danger of hell)?
The Bible is clear that one cannot serve both God and money. So, can we turn this into a test of one's justification? This will mean that whoever is not tithing (at least) cannot be called a true Christian, for they habitually love their money more than God. Sounds good?
Also, Bible tells us to be thankful for everything. If I'm habitually not a thankful person, and need to be reminded to give thanks, that means I'm unregenerate, correct?
BUT, works done by a believer who is out of fellowship through sin, are works of human righteousness and at the judgment seat of Christ will be found to be 'wood, hay, and stubble' and will be burned up. For the believer the issue is, are your works done in the power of the Holy Spirit, or are they done in the power of your old sin nature-human righteousness.
I don't think we are in complete disagreement here. Works done by a believer who is out of fellowship through sin could be compared by works done by an unbeliever. No?
Bottom line: good works alone will not lead to salvation.
Now someone tell that to the Pope.
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