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Those against Jesus speaking the truth of:
"God WILL save all mankind" (1 Tim.2:4-6) say "God WILL NOT save all mankind"
At some point you need to realize that there is more to the truth than just 1 Tim.2:4-6. Jesus himself answers the question: John 3:36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
When? They surely did see death. So when is this "never see death" to take place? It takes place after the resurrection. So, not only do they get eonian life or the life pertaining to the future eons but they get immortality too even though the eons will end.
Everyone will exist forever after death...but the difference is that the voice of Satan says God is a liar and or unfair. Those on the side of the truth listen to God. God says:
Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
John 5:28-29 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
So are you saying your gospel is you have to believe Jesus is God or you will go to your idea of hell?
Absolutely
John 10:27
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me
John 6:45 It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
Methinks someone is quoting scripture out of context....
Uh, I hate to be the one to break it to ya, twin, but yourLord came for the likes of June, and others like her....
(So you're helping to further His message, spread His word, how!?)
Precisely.
June's point, exactly.
Thank you, Bright Hope for Tomorrow.
(And yes, even atheists have been known to have read, studied, and actually understand the bible!)
Take gentle care.
June,
Being you believe to understand the Bible it would be more advisable to concern yourself with the log in both your eyes. It should be apparent that most people who questioned Jesus did so to either trap him in his own words or out of unbelief and\or hatred.
It is fool hearty to think that Jesus warning to the Pharisee's and the teachers isn't applicable to "June, and others like her...."
Being you believe to understand the Bible, God refers to his word as pearls. There comes a time when He commands those of us who are entrusted with pearls to stop offering it to "June, and others like her...."
Matthew 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."
Revelation 22:15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
That is how I'm spreading the message..warning "June, and others like her...." to stop resisting and repent or suffer the fate of being condemned to hell.
Many of us are like Noah:
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
Last edited by twin.spin; 04-25-2010 at 08:56 AM..
Reason: clarity
Methinks someone is quoting scripture out of context....
Uh, I hate to be the one to break it to ya, twin, but yourLord came for the likes of June, and others like her....
(So you're helping to further His message, spread His word, how!?)
Precisely.
June's point, exactly.
Thank you, Bright Hope for Tomorrow.
(And yes, even atheists have been known to have read, studied, and actually understand the bible!)
Take gentle care.
Hay June,you know how I'm going to escape being condemned to hell? By not believing in Christianity and their God and staying the hell off the roof.....
Actually, the quote is about NOT escaping the Gahenna judgment. Surely you know this?
That was my point.
Rhodes,
You never answered or even addressed the question I asked you...a simple yes or no would suffice, however, all you did was fill your post with a little rhetoric on your part. An interetsing deflection I might add. I know I don't have to agree with you, neither do you, but if what you present as being the case for your previous post and use of Mark 9, how does it pertain to the discussion at hand in regard to escaping hell? You urge us, and myself, to see you were pointing out the relevant audience in mind as Jesus spoke, but lest you forget your subliminal agenda in promoting a line of reasoning that to me, is laden with Universalism. Christ is speaking to His disciples indeed, but the nature of the subject covers more than having salt in themselves, but a commandment solely directed for them to avoid and "escape being condemmed to hell", as well as the effects of what it really is like IN HELL. An intellectual Universalist.....hmmm
June,
Being you believe to understand the Bible it would be more advisable to concern yourself with the log in both your eyes. It should be apparent that most people who questioned Jesus did so to either trap him in his own words or out of unbelief and\or hatred.
It is fool hearty to think that Jesus warning to the Pharisee's and the teachers isn't applicable to "June, and others like her...."
Is June a Pharisee? Are you? Do we even have Pharisee's anymore? It is fool hearty to think that Jesus was warning anyone NOW!... We've been trying to tell you that the passage has nothing to do with us NOW... but you rarely listen.
Quote:
Being you believe to understand the Bible, God refers to his word as pearls. There comes a time when He commands those of us who are entrusted with pearls to stop offering it to "June, and others like her...."
Matthew 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."
Revelation 22:15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Interesting... so those Jesus came to save are actually just pigs and dogs? Isn't Jesus talking to the disciples about those people that judge others? So the pigs are people that pass judgment on others. right? And the dogs? How exactly do you apply these passages to anyone who disagrees with you?
Phil. 2:3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.
Yet do you consider June as better than yourself?
June is right... You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. So I guess since you are not UNGODLY then Christ did not die for you.
Quote:
That is how I'm spreading the message..warning "June, and others like her...." to stop resisting and repent or suffer the fate of being condemned to hell.
Boy won't you have egg on your face when June is in heaven and you end up in hell...
Colossians 4:6 Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.
Really... telling someone they will go to hell is not speech plus grace... IMO!
Matt. 12:35 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.
If anyone else created a hell and tormented people in it for eternity they would be EVIL... only an EVIL man brings EVIL things out of the EVIL stored up in him...
by telling others that you are better than them because you CHOOSE a certain doctrine is not HUMILITY. To say that God will burn them eternally is EVIL and shows the EVIL in your heart.
Col. 2:18-19 "Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow."
Twin - you have lost connection with God....and your nonspiritual mind puffs you up with idle notions of a loving God torturing people for eternity that are not as "GOOD" as you think you are. Simple arrogance, which is completely evident to everyone. Are you the one who took what God gave you and turned it into another gospel altogether? Where is your love for your fellow man?
Is June a Pharisee? Are you? Do we even have Pharisee's anymore? It is fool hearty to think that Jesus was warning anyone NOW!... We've been trying to tell you that the passage has nothing to do with us NOW... but you rarely listen.
Interesting... so those Jesus came to save are actually just pigs and dogs? Isn't Jesus talking to the disciples about those people that judge others? So the pigs are people that pass judgment on others. right? And the dogs? How exactly do you apply these passages to anyone who disagrees with you?
Phil. 2:3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.
Yet do you consider June as better than yourself?
June is right... You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. So I guess since you are not UNGODLY then Christ did not die for you.
Boy won't you have egg on your face when June is in heaven and you end up in hell...
Colossians 4:6 Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.
Really... telling someone they will go to hell is not speech plus grace... IMO!
Matt. 12:35 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.
If anyone else created a hell and tormented people in it for eternity they would be EVIL... only an EVIL man brings EVIL things out of the EVIL stored up in him...
by telling others that you are better than them because you CHOOSE a certain doctrine is not HUMILITY. To say that God will burn them eternally is EVIL and shows the EVIL in your heart.
Col. 2:18-19 "Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow."
Twin - you have lost connection with God....and your nonspiritual mind puffs you up with idle notions of a loving God torturing people for eternity that are not as "GOOD" as you think you are. Simple arrogance, which is completely evident to everyone. Are you the one who took what God gave you and turned it into another gospel altogether? Where is your love for your fellow man?
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.
No better proverb for you who admitted this was for her entertainment....
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.
No better proverb for you who admitted this was for her entertainment....
And you are getting paid or forced to be here? I like to post... and somehow you make that a bad thing too..
Is that the best you have? Or are you setting out to prove that you have EVIL within that shows forth readily?
Please....These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings.
Hell is a human invention for the plight of the wicked by men who thought themselves better than others...
The wrath of God is dying... "you shall surely die", The wages of sin is death... Destruction is death.... What you apply after that is simply human invention and OPINION.
Unless of course you have had a visit from a deceased person or God, or both.... in which case....please do share.
It is fool hearty to think that Jesus warning to the Pharisee's and the teachers isn't applicable to "June, and others like her...."
There comes a time when He commands those of us who are entrusted with pearls to stop offering it to "June, and others like her...."
Matthew 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."
Revelation 22:15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
I think it is very, very sad, when people throw these verses out at people that are searching or confused by what they see around them. I should know. I was one of those that got Matthew 7:6 thrown at me at a very vulnerable time in my life, on the brink of complete spiritual and mental breakdown.
Many Christians do NOT know what they are doing to people. They take a look at someone, their lifestyle, their mood, whatever, and instantly judge them. The people in Noah's time, NOT JUNE, were wreaking havoc, doing all kinds of bizarre things, and they MOCKED and MOCKED Noah, until they were drowned, kind of like a reset button I guess you could say. I really don't think June, or most people out there, are causing too much mayhem. They are just searching or having a hard time believing, and this is a VERY confusing time to be alive!
My son, 14, is an atheist, and he is very intelligent and angry at what he sees, angry at all the hypocrisy and nonsense in religion and elsewhere. I am not going to tell him that I am casting pearls before swine and threaten him with being set on fire in the afterlife. I'm going to continue, like a true Christian should do, to show him the fruits of the spirit: love, joy, peace, LONG-SUFFERING (patience), kindness, goodness.
We "Christians" can be like Jonah and point fingers and say, "look at all those heathen out there, they don't deserve any kindness," and tell God to wipe them out. Why do you think the last 2000 years has brought so much war and violence in religion? It certainly wasn't because of the Holy Spirit's fruits!!!!!
Casting pearls before swine ALWAYS has a connection to those Pharisees, or those with the Pharisaical spirit (Severe, rigid), whom Jesus Christ was ANGRY at. Religion. He had SO MUCH LOVE to give and they just wanted to trample it into the ground with their own religion. He told them to go to HELL (Gehenna), which they soon did!
You should always be careful around those who don't believe or those who are STRUGGLING with the message of LOVE. And who wouldn't struggle with the message of love, when all they see is RELIGION, which is SUPPOSED to show LOVE, stomping people into the ground for not believing or not understanding, and starting wars and causing violence to uphold their version of perfection.
If we had a spouse who did not believe, we are supposed to be QUIET and continue to show them FRUIT! There is a verse about such things. We should show the Holy Spirit to our fellow neighbors, friends, and acquaintances.
Only God knows, in the end, what exactly is going on in the heart of man. If you want to sit and judge in His place, I would be very careful, to say the least. You have no idea what might become of that person you are judging and how God HIMSELF might end up using that person.
I am still a little angry at those to whom I was looking for help (I did not know what kind of help I needed) started using the most ridiculous verses to "Help" me (believing I was wicked or whatever). I needed true love. I needed to know God loved me. I didn't know that at the time, but I betcha it would have helped immensely if someone had taken the time and energy to show some love to me in the past! I wasn't exactly lovable at that point, but should that have mattered? NO! There was a DEEP hurt and an IMMENSE amount of pain behind my behavior. But, those who instantaneously judge didn't give me a chance to figure it all out. I needed things to make sense, and the answers that mainstream Christianity gives only makes a mockery out of the truth.
So, again, be careful before pointing fingers and telling everybody that they are going to be set on fire for eternity because they are pigs. Those may be the last words those people hear before taking their life, or worse, if you can imagine such things.......
Really.......Be Careful.
Last edited by herefornow; 04-25-2010 at 02:49 PM..
I think it is very, very sad, when people throw these verses out at people that are searching or confused by what they see around them. I should know. I was one of those that got Matthew 7:6 thrown at me at a very vulnerable time in my life, on the brink of complete spiritual and mental breakdown.
Many Christians do NOT know what they are doing to people. They take a look at someone, their lifestyle, their mood, whatever, and instantly judges them. The people in Noah's time, NOT JUNE, were wreaking havoc, doing all kinds of bizarre things, and they MOCKED and MOCKED Noah, until they were drowned, kind of like a reset button I guess you could say. I really don't think June, or most people out there, are causing too much mayhem. They are just searching or having a hard time believing, and this is a VERY confusing time to be alive!
My son, 14, is an atheist, and he is very intelligent and angry at what he sees, angry at all the hypocrisy and nonsense in religion and elsewhere. I am not going to tell him that I am casting pearls before swine and threaten him with being set on fire in the afterlife. I'm going to continue, like a true Christian should do, to show him the fruits of the spirit: love, joy, peace, LONG-SUFFERING (patience), kindness, goodness).
We "Christians" can be like Jonah and point fingers and say, "look at all those heathen out there, they don't deserve any kindness," and tell God to wipe them out. Why do you think the last 2000 years has brought so much war and violence in religion? It certainly wasn't because of the Holy Spirit and it's fruits!!!!!
Casting pearls before swine ALWAYS has a connection to those Pharisees, or those with the Pharisaical spirit (Severe, rigid), whom Jesus Christ was ANGRY at. Religion. He had SO MUCH LOVE to give and they just wanted to trample it into the ground with their own religion. He told them to go to HELL (Gehenna), which they soon did!
You should always be careful around those who don't believe or those who are STRUGGLING with the message of LOVE. And who wouldn't struggle with the message of love, when all they see is RELIGION, which is SUPPOSED to show LOVE, stomping people into the ground for not believing or not understanding, and starting wars and causing violence to uphold their version of perfection.
If we had a spouse who did not believe, we are supposed to be QUIET and continue to show them FRUIT! There is a verse about such things. We should show the Holy Spirit to our fellow neighbors, friends, and acquaintances.
Only God knows, in the end, what exactly is going on in the heart of man. If you want to sit and judge in His place, I would be very careful, to say the least. You have no idea what might become of that person you are judging and how God HIMSELF might end up using that person.
I am still a little angry at those whom I was looking to for help, not knowing what kind of help I needed, when they started using the most ridiculous verses to "Help" me. I needed true love. I needed to know God loved me. I didn't know that at the time, but I betcha it would have helped immensely if someone had taken the time and energy to show some love to me in the past! I wasn't exactly lovable at that point, but should that have mattered? NO! There was a DEEP hurt and an IMMENSE amount of pain behind my behavior. But, those who instantaneously judge didn't give me a chance to figure it all out. I needed things to make sense, and the answers that mainstream Christianity gives only makes a mockery out of the truth.
So, again, be careful before pointing fingers and telling everybody that they are going to be set on fire for eternity because they are pigs. Those may be the last words those people hear before taking their life, or worse, if you can imagine such things.......
Really.......Be Careful.
Absolutely beautiful.
Unfortunately, mainstream Christianity has reached a point today where "the only thing you need to do to go to heaven is believe." There is absolutely no need to love people. It's completely superfluous. Belief will get you in, forget about the rest.
This is the understanding of "salvation by faith, not works" today.
We all should be mourning this trend..
Blessings.
Brian
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