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Old 07-01-2011, 07:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Versus Freewill. (Something other than Universalism-pleeze)

Romans 8:29. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (NKJV)

IMO this scripture links freewill and predestination. God knew in advance (foreknew) who would choose Christ. We live our lives and make freewill choices. Some choose Jesus, some say no thanks.

Discuss.
Predestination is God's realm. Free will is our realm. Thinking "predestination" can result in puffed up pride. This would be dangerous thinking. The path is narrow, and few find it. Our pride is the root of our problems. Let predestination be God's realm. My opinion.
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Old 07-01-2011, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
Predestination is God's realm. Free will is our realm. Thinking "predestination" can result in puffed up pride. This would be dangerous thinking. The path is narrow, and few find it. Our pride is the root of our problems. Let predestination be God's realm. My opinion.
Your opinion is good and scriptual-IMO.
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Old 07-01-2011, 10:43 PM
 
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Love without free will is not love. If we are predestined or forced to love Him then it's not true love. So under predestination, the God is Love thing just doesn't hold water. Rather we are mind numbed robots who are forced to have allegiance to Him. Christianity without love just falls apart and the whole thing just crumbles to the ground.

Free will, folks, It's the only way you can actually love. Predestination in the calvanistic sense is just plain horse pile. Calvin had no authority even though he thought of himself as prophet or the equivalent of an apostle. He was neither. He was just another egotistical man who had a Bible and an opinion.
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Old 07-01-2011, 11:36 PM
 
37,545 posts, read 25,255,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodToBeHome View Post
Love without free will is not love. If we are predestined or forced to love Him then it's not true love. So under predestination, the God is Love thing just doesn't hold water. Rather we are mind numbed robots who are forced to have allegiance to Him. Christianity without love just falls apart and the whole thing just crumbles to the ground.

Free will, folks, It's the only way you can actually love. Predestination in the calvanistic sense is just plain horse pile. Calvin had no authority even though he thought of himself as prophet or the equivalent of an apostle. He was neither. He was just another egotistical man who had a Bible and an opinion.
I agree. But your faith in the Catholic Church and especially its hierarchy is misplaced.
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Old 07-01-2011, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Martin Zender on freewill and Predestination:
Free Will and the "Oh Well!" Creed - Calvinism and Arminianism

I agree with Mr. Zender. Any sense that we are in control of our lives is only an illusion.
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Old 07-02-2011, 02:13 PM
 
910 posts, read 1,043,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
Predestination is God's realm. Free will is our realm. Thinking "predestination" can result in puffed up pride. This would be dangerous thinking. The path is narrow, and few find it. Our pride is the root of our problems. Let predestination be God's realm. My opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodToBeHome View Post
Love without free will is not love. If we are predestined or forced to love Him then it's not true love. So under predestination, the God is Love thing just doesn't hold water. Rather we are mind numbed robots who are forced to have allegiance to Him. Christianity without love just falls apart and the whole thing just crumbles to the ground.

Free will, folks, It's the only way you can actually love. Predestination in the calvanistic sense is just plain horse pile. Calvin had no authority even though he thought of himself as prophet or the equivalent of an apostle. He was neither. He was just another egotistical man who had a Bible and an opinion.
In the worldly plane, free will rules, but in the spiritual (which as you know controls the physical) plane, predestination rules. Only God can change it for his own reasons alone. Pharaoh did not want the Israelites to go, but the bible makes clear that God hardened his heart, so as to fulfill his purpose. God is the doer of all things, he uses us according to his will.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:21 AM
 
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God predestinated the evil actions of men . This is seen in the sacred record in the account of the Lords crucifixion !

Acts 2:23

23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
God predestinated the evil actions of men . This is seen in the sacred record in the account of the Lords crucifixion !

Acts 2:23

23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
I don't believe God predestinated all the evil acts of men. If you want to believe that, that's up to you. God can, however use the evil acts of men for good. Obviously the crucifixion was according to the determinate counsel of God's will. But certainly not in the sense that we can infer that God is the author of wickedness.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:21 AM
 
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Quote:
I don't believe God predestinated all the evil acts of men.
Most people don't..
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Heartsong:
Quote:
I don't believe God predestined all the evil works of men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post


Most people don't..
The scriptures state that Satan was a murderer from the beginning and the truth did not abide in him. Also that Satan came to kill, steal, and destroy, but that Christ came to put an end to the devil's works. So, by your logic, you seem to be implying that Christ is against God. I personally (from having read your posts) think you've been eating a lot of bad theology and it is not causing you to become more pure. That's just my observation - only God truly knows where anyone is, spiritually speaking.

Heartsong
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