Light Rail - Where and how do we get started! (Cincinnati: university, subdivisions)

[kjbrill]

I just don't understand why anyone would say the topography of Cincinnati is not a detriment to light rail. Whenever I hear the word tunnel I go Cha-Ching Cha-Ching.

Metro has had express buses for how long to park-n-ride locations out in the distant suburbs. They are woefully underutilized. My personal opinion is because they do virtually nothing for the city dweller desiring to work in the suburbs, and a lot of jobs are in the suburbs. The express buses are a one-way vehicle - to/from jobs in the downtown City. They basically run empty the other direction. 50% of the time running empty is not a profit making situation. I do not see how light rail changes that a bit.

When I worked for the Japanese I was intriged how they managed transit there. Our plant in Japan was some distance from the train station where all of the commuter trains ran through. Now this was a train station, some six levels high with a public square just outside it. Our company ran their own buses between the station and our sites, we had three of them in the town.
Whenever I went there on business I would stay in a hotel right at the train station. I would catch a company bus in the square out to make my visit. I always had to sit in the rear seat with my feet in the aisle since no way could I squeeze into one of the bus seats.

As the company bus made its rounds, it stopped in a few higher-level residential neighborhoods where some of the other employees lived. No matter whether you had a car, there was no place to park it at the facilities. So it all worked, everyone took the bus. But it was a company bus, in short time you knew everyone who rode it. And BTW it was a company service - no fee. So when I went to visit, and stopped for the bus at the square, they quickly recognized this is Ken-San, he must have the center seat in the rear as it is the only one he fits in.

I enjoyed riding with them for two reasons, almost everyone did it. Number 2 when I did it they accepted me as something other than a nose-in-the-air Westerner. So yes, I got some brownie points with the rank and file.

As a visitor from the US, I could have very easily taken a cab from the hotel to our facility. An easy $50 cab bill one-way from the hotel to our facility. Another unique situation though, I would just tell the cab driver I was a Makino employee and to bill the company and they did it. A minimal amount of ID required.

But there must be some things pointed out. Our major facilities were in Atsugi Japan. This was a major US air base after WWII. After the war and things were gradually given back to the US, we need to acknowledge this happened.

[unusualfire]

Name me one bus stop that has TOD Kjbrill?

[natininja]

kjbrill,

You see, this is the thing. Bus routes have little-to-no influence on development patterns. Train tracks/stations attract development. You have to understand this very basic point before you can intelligently discuss this topic. When you say "I do not see how light rail changes that a bit," you're explicitly saying you don't see this very basic and 100% verifiable point.

Now, you could say you don't think LRT will attract enough development to make up for the cost. But to cite bus ridership (which, let's be honest, was never designed to do anything more than what you describe) and say LRT will not change things a bit is uninformed or disingenuous.

Look at the Liberty Center project. That is exactly the type of thing that would sprout up around an LRT stop. It has residences, shops, offices, and is designed to be walkable once you're past the parking moat. Looks like a perfect transit stop (live/work/play destinations, generating trips to and from), with a huge park & ride lot to boot. The fact that the market is already demanding something resembling transit-oriented development, even without the transit link, to me looks like LRT would be a slam-dunk success. Demand for locating in these types of business and residential properties would increase dramatically with train stations to be at the center of them.

[jmecklenborg]

Again, let's back up for a moment. About 30% of automobile trips are commutes, and nearly 100% of commuter rail trips are commutes. This means a commuter-oriented rail system can only tap into 30% of all trips that are being made in a metro region.

Meanwhile a neighborhood-oriented system, which is what streetcar systems were, get some commutes AND the other 70% of trips. This is why streetcar ridership is so massive as compared to the same public money spent on commuter-oriented lines.

The most interesting study that could be funded at the moment would be to see what the ROI is on a $1 billion city streetcar system vs. $1 billion commuter-oriented light rail system. Then increased the capital amounts -- a $2 billion city streetcar system vs. a $2 billion county commuter system.

[lipued]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Metro has had express buses for how long to park-n-ride locations out in the distant suburbs. They are woefully underutilized. My personal opinion is because they do virtually nothing for the city dweller desiring to work in the suburbs, and a lot of jobs are in the suburbs. The express buses are a one-way vehicle - to/from jobs in the downtown City. They basically run empty the other direction. 50% of the time running empty is not a profit making situation. I do not see how light rail changes that a bit.

In my opinion, express buses are expensive, and that is the main reason of few passengers. Route 71X is my only choice to go to Barnes & Noble in Kenwood, and it was really painful to pay its fare. I think few of express bus or BRT system has that high price, and 71X has no superiority to BRT system or light rail system of other cities, like Cleveland. Although Metro couldn`t build a railroad, at least they could build much better and cheaper BRT systems than current express buses. But they didn`t.

[jmecklenborg]

The 71X is not funded by Metro. It is funded by Warren County, who pays Metro to operate the bus route. Same with the 42X, except that's Butler County paying for it. If you want the fares to be cheaper on these express routes, complain to your county commissioners, not Metro.

[jmecklenborg]

Back to the issue of Light Rail...here is the first segment of Seattle's line, which opened in 2009. This video starts about 2 miles south of DT Seattle and heads south to a point about 6 miles south of downtown. The tunnel entered in the video's first minute is the Capitol Hill Tunnel, which has one subway station. Immediately after emerging from the tunnel, the track travels at-grade in the center of Martin Luther King Blvd. Here you see great examples of big-time transit-oriented housing...in the video's second minute we pass several blocks of brand-new apartments. Also, note the signal priority given to the trains:

Link light rail through South Seattle (2x speed) - YouTube

[lipued]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

The 71X is not funded by Metro. It is funded by Warren County, who pays Metro to operate the bus route. Same with the 42X, except that's Butler County paying for it. If you want the fares to be cheaper on these express routes, complain to your county commissioners, not Metro.

Oh, it is my mistake that I`ve not known that.

[lipued]

Anyway, signal priority...that must be given to future streetcars in Cincinnati...I sometimes think re-creating streetcars as a LRT system and connect it to North destinations in future.

[Briolat21]

There's a great opinion piece in Slate today regarding why BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) could do the job of light rail - if implemented properly (which it seems it rarely is).

I thought it made a lot of good points. I realize Cinci's going the light rail route, but I wonder how many other municipalities will take a serious look at BRT and go that route.