Hawaii vs. New Zealand (Los Angeles, statistics, income, restaurant)
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NZ is not a place I think of when I think of 'beach culture'.
Maybe I don't have a proper perception of it, but I always equate it with the Pacific Northwest in climate, appearance, and weather.
For some reason, I just imagine going to beach in NZ would be like going to one in Oregon. Beautiful to look at, but I'll be viewing it with a lot of warm clothes on.
Maybe I'm wrong though....I always imagined that Kiwis would fly to OZ to enjoy true beach culture adequately - the kind with volleyballs, bikinis, suntans, sandcastles, etc.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong though.
You are wrong. The beaches in Auckland and further up North are beautifully warm in the summer, especially the sheltered bays on the East Coast, the North Shore area. The West Coast has the wilder surfing beaches with black sand and are slightly colder but still warm enough to swim in.
OP, I would look at Australia as a more viable option for relocating. It has far more opportunities career-wise and you'll earn more money.
I feel like I rooted in California more than Japan personally, I just have a great respect for Japan and the Japanese people and culture....my wife and I have always just referred to our moves as "chasing San Diego." .
San Diego is not like it was 15 years ago. It is leaning into becoming a 2nd L.A. very rapidly. Very high pollution. Not as bad as Houston YET, but significant. I also have family in San Diego, and I also, at some point considered settling there. But frankly, the odds of an earthquake are too high of a concern for me.
If you look at Haiti, JAPAN, N.Z. other earthquakes in Italy of Turkey, or the Thailand XMas Earthquake generated Tsunami, it is not difficult to see that they are the very worst of worst of disasters, predominently because of their unpredictabilty.
Tornadoes can be just as bad, but much more limited in their scope. They won't destroy half a state. And they hit in the plains, typically smaller towns or villages.
The transportation nightmare a CA quake will create is beyond imagination.
I do not care what they say. If the earth cracks open under a concrete building, even if the crack is only 2 inches, the integrity of the building is compromised. And if it is a 30 year old nuclear plant, NO THANK YOU.
I already decided against San Diego (L.A. is not an option) a long time ago due to earthquakes concerns, before the recent earthquakes and Japan disasters. But obviously, they only reinforced my conviction I would never live there no matter what salary or fancy house I would be offered.
Besides, hurricane insurance is expensive in FL. but still affordable. Earthquake insurance in CA? Completely impossible. Not only are home super expensive, but you take a chance to lose it all? No rational person will do that.
Once more, my intention being to give my kids a place where there is the greatest assurance they can enjoy growing up, go to college, get a job, and come back as their "home", I would not live in CA. In fact my brother is frantically trying to get out of San Diego. He cannot sell his house right now, and foreclosure is not an option, so he feels stucked for a while. But he just wants out. His daughter has developed respiratory problems, due to the pollution, and they cannot go out much anymore. The traffic jams are getting so hellish, that he goes out only for absolute necessities, like work and shopping. They do take trips in the back country small mountains, where the air is suitable for their child but no beach trip anymore. He has a pool. Just like the ocean it is usable about 2 months in the year... barely... brrrrr.
So, I am raking my brain to try to remember why I wanted to live in San Diego some time ago, and truly, the only reason is the weather. Which is now very much ruined by the pollution, and the overloading of the scarce eroding beaches... so, what else???? The winters in FL are much better than in CA, what to speak of the beaches! So the absolute thing I lost are the CA summers, together with their "gloomy June" feature, minus the current state of pollution.
Lane_change, both you and your wife might idealise the place a little bit, like most people do of their childhood ground, after they left it. And what you remember might not even be there anymore. Did you visit recently? That's not too far, compared to N.Z.
Last edited by SurferCocoa; 12-31-2011 at 09:12 AM..
There was a somewhat interesting book a few years back by an American who just decided to pack up and move his family to NZ, "Slipping into Paradise," that the OP might useful as part of his research.
Both NZ and Hawaii are beautiful (this thread caught my attention as I fantasized about moving to NZ at one point) but I don't quite know why Australia has been summarily dismissed. There's the whole work visa process and the "tyranny of distance" thing but you have to go through that for NZ as well. But the climate and lifestyle -- especially of the smaller beach communities -- would seem to be perfect for what the OP is looking for. And, like Hawaii and NZ, they speak English (of a sort). Salaries will be higher too, on average, than NZ.
Obviously, Sydney and Melbourne are too urban but there are lots of choices that wouldn't too far from areas of employment, such as the northern coast of New South Wales, like Byron Bay which is absolutely stunning, not as cold as NZ, and it's about an hour south of the populated Gold Coast where you might have to work. It's about two hours south of Brisbane. (Though it's touristy, I sure wouldn't consider having to work in the Gold Coast such a bad thing!) The Byron Bay area has about 30,000 residents, big enough to have the necessities but not a megalopolis by any means. Earthquakes/volcanoes are less of a threat than in NZ or Hawaii as well and, unlike Florida, I think it would be rare for a cyclone/hurricane to come that far south. You can see some images and read about it here: Byron Bay, New South Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You will have to deal with tourists there but that's true of Hawaii as well. And I'm not sure what the cost of a house with some acreage would be.
If Byron Bay feels too congested, north of Brisbane, you've got great stretches of beaches and towns going all the way north to the Cape York Peninsula. And you've got the Great Barrier Reef right there as well. And you can get direct flights from Brisbane to the US these days.
In any case, whatever you decide, you're going to have better beaches than you have in Houston (and I say this as someone who actually likes Houston!).
I know! The poor guy obviously "rooted" in Japan, but he can't live there. I am not mean at all. I truly feel for him. But I want to protect his kids of the same situation.
I was telling how people get home-sick far away from their country, no matter how undesirable their childhood place sounds to us.
But whether they return to their home land or not still depend on the country they emigrated to.
For example N.Z. might have a handful of features that you do not find in the U.S. (penguins?) But the U.S. has millions of advantages over N.Z. My gosh N.Z. has 3 main towns, and one of them (Christchurch) just got wiped out by an earthquake. And I do not see any MAJOR advantage, like "good salaries vs cost of life" or ideal weather or anything at all, besides penguins, that would hold an American heart for the rest of his life. He will come back in a hurry, after remembering all the good stuff in North America, and will feel stupid to limit himself to a small cold, expensive, far away island. Now if the O.P. had no kids, I would think what a great idea to go and spend a couple of years in N.Z.
On the other hand, a U.S. immigrant from China, or India, or Siberia, might feel nostalgic about his birthplace, and return to visit often, but there are enough strong incentives for them to remain in the U.S.
Now, it might not be politically correct to say that the U.S. (in fact I expand it to N. America) is better than another country, but please, do not send a flopyy of blogs to tell me that France or Greece are just as good, and what's wrong with Siberia, and so on. Please, just understand my general point. What I say could apply to any 2 countries where one has a significantly better standard of living than another, including weather and topography.
In many ways, and no disservice to NZ, but NZ is just like another state. But combined with many negative aspects of not actually being a state for an American.
In many ways, and no disservice to NZ, but NZ is just like another state. But combined with many negative aspects of not actually being a state for an American.
As a born and bred New Zealander I always tell people NZ is a lovely place to visit but not to live in permanently.
You know SurferCocoa you make a good point. I think I would love living abroad for a year or two, but not forever for exactly the reason you are describing. I mentioned in a previous post that I live across the country from my family. I grew up in one state and while it's currently a state under great economic stress, in bad shape in general and I don't really want to live there anymore, it's totally where I am rooted and I couldn't go too far away from it. I have a hard enough time where I am. If I was to move to another country permanently-and I would only do this if I got too fed up with our political system here in the US--it would be Canada. At least then I wouldn't be any farther than I currently am. But NZ? I can see visiting--in fact I will be visiting soon! and living there for maybe a year or so. I think I would love it. But I would have to come back. I think that people who think they can just up and move to another country like that don't think about it. The concept of doing it sounds great, exotic and exciting but putting it into practice is a whole nother animal. That's not to say no one should....it's just my point of view. I know not everyone is like me. But I often find I agree with what you say.
As a born and bred New Zealander I always tell people NZ is a lovely place to visit but not to live in permanently.
I really do not mean that N.Z. is not a nice place to live in. I realise that I put it down to make my point, and It does not come out the way I would like. What I try to say, is that there are so many places offering the same opportunities in North America, or better, when it comes to landscape and weather. Small towns, big towns, peaceful places,,, whatever you wish for, you will find, between the U.S. and Canada. Even Mexico. With the advantage of so many many many more choices and diversity. Since we did not find any special advantgages in N.Z., like wonderful schools, better weather, or well paid jobs, or cheap homes....Combined with the home-sick factor. It will not work for the O.P.
Talk of the home-sick factor. He has been raised mostly in Japan and CA, and that's all he is thinking. From his own words "he'll rather live with Japanese" and he is "chasing Dan Diego" ever since he left it. Home-sickness is a very powerful drive.
Once in N.Z., he will end up missing his beautiful 4000sf home in Houston, and the easy money, plus all the mind-boggling food shoping, at the mega super markets. Houston will seem like heaven, all of a sudden.
I can't imagine him settling there for the rest of his life, when he knows of better opportunities, and they are readily available to him, since he is a U.S. citizen. Beautiful breath taking landscape is not enough, to raise an happy family!
I agree with clean fresh air as primordial. I understand the need to be next to the ocean, and good weather. But beautiful widerness, that cannot even be enjoyed on a daily basis.... there is plenty in N. America. All kind. I am planning on an Alaska cruise next summer, and we went to the Grand Cannyon this fall. Hopefully will take a ski trip to Utah in March. What am I missing from N.Z.?
To me it is such basic common sense, I am so very surprised I have to explain it over and over, in so many angles. I can see very clearly and without any doubt that the O.P. is not going to emigrate in N.Z., or anywhere else for this matter, and spend the rest of his life in a foreign country. I am surprised how most bloggers "bite" into his FANTASY.
Maybe they never went to a foreign country besides short tourist visits.. or what's wrong with those people????
I will not talk again about this N.Z. thing. It is childish.
This is what a traveler to N.Z. said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmanon
........
I only visited New Zealand and loved it but wow, it's just so far away, especially if you have family elsewhere. It is gorgeous though and the people were wonderful - it kind of reminded me of how we used to be. It is true when someone said things are not easily acquired there - I never ate so many bread and butter sandwiches in my life! So interesting to travel by bus and a local person at the stop would give the driver a fish to deliver a few miles down the road to someone else. The fruit stands by the side of the road were unmanned using the honor system, it was great. I was also cold the entire time! We have a friend who is from Mt. Maunganui South and although its got breathtaking scenery he said it was like living at the end of the earth. He is a water person but the living was just a little too easy for him and he longed for more action than his area offered. Let me put it like this: he has visited us in Mexico and when we take him to the taco stands he thinks it's the most exciting thing in the world.
I laughed so hard at the Mexican stand jokes, because i did experiment it myself when I travel to very isolated place, and all of a sudden you find a little dingy guy selling some stale snacks on a cart. It's like WOW! how wonderful! Gets all excited. A warm coca-cola! What a treasure!
Last edited by SurferCocoa; 12-31-2011 at 09:33 PM..
I really do not mean that N.Z. is not a nice place to live in. I realise that I put it down to make my point, and It does not come out the way I would like. What I try to say, is that there are so many places offering the same opportunities in North America, or better, when it comes to landscape and weather.
I completely agree with you.
I love NZ, it will always be my birth place and my home to some extent, but I will never live there again.
There are so many more opportunities here in the US.
The Americans I personally know who have lived there always come back to the US eventually. They may have loved NZ but their kids needed a bigger place to reach their potential.
I love NZ, it will always be my birth place and my home to some extent, but I will never live there again.
There are so many more opportunities here in the US.
The Americans I personally know who have lived there always come back to the US eventually. They may have loved NZ but their kids needed a bigger place to reach their potential.
Yes. Exactly.
Now I assure you that I am not a die-hard American. And yes, I have considered many times moving to another country. Only my children keep me here.
But to places where I cound find important features that do not exist in the U.S. Like EUROPE, for example. If I became an Italian citizen, (as an example) I would immediately be able to visit, live and work anywhere in the European coalition. Each country is a little bit like a state in the U.S.
But each one has a very distinct culture, heritage, architecture, food specialty (think wine, cheese) . From Greece to the Netherland... Malta island, Spain, Ireland, Roumania.... Visit Marocco.... what a wonderful world! Compared to the uniform blandness in the U.S. Movie stars like Angelina Jolie or Tom Cruse know what's best.
I would be able to get a decent job and live comfortably. Europe is truly a place that make me feel I never want to come back to live in the U.S. even when I get a little home-sick. But, I will surely visit back the U.S. often.
OR, I will go in a country with breath-taking views and mesmerizing cultures, like Nepal and/or India, where I can live very well with $400 a month. Of course, as a retiree who does not need to work at all. Seriously. A $60K saving would allow me to retire in style, in such places, or live there for 10 years doing nothing else than exploring the wealth of treasures, cultural, architectural, art, spiritualities. From the Himalyas, to the jungles in Bengal, to the Indian Ocean shores. Sri Lanka... Thailand.... What a wonderful lazy life! Dreaming....
Both ideas are options I consider seriously once my kids are completely settled. And I assure you that I do not raise my kids telling them they live in the best country in the world. Quiite the contrary. It is very important to me that they have an understanding and appreciation of other cultures. Still, I consider myself very lucky to live in the state, in FL especially.
Europe is not an option for the O.P. due to language barriers. If he does not speak fluently Japanese after spending 8 years in Japan, so he is not the type who will adjust fast enough. I bet the only Japanese thing he does is miso and sushi!
And obviously, going in those undevelopped countries, who are so rich in culture and breathtaking views, will not work for a young family with children.
The fact is that you need compelling reasons to emigrate in another country, even more so with kids, especially for spoiled U.S. citizens like us.
I was able to speak Japanese decent when I was there, but that was quite some time ago....almost 20 yrs, so my Japanese is far from fluent. Could I pick it up again, probably. My wife's family all lives in Europe except her mother who lives in Florida, so we would/could have family in England, France, Italy, and Israel and I speak French about as well as I speak Japanese, but my wife speaks French pretty close to fluent except her dialect is all wrong being an American. We both love Europe and have visited quite a few times since being married and she grew up spending her summer's on Corsica with her family. Her entire family lives in the ocean every chance they get, and my wife is the same way. I think she is solar powered because her energy level and love of life goes up immensely when the sun is out and the heat is soaking into her. We have started to narrow our focus on San Diego or Oahu. I lived off and on in California for 20 years and don't remember any earthquake in San Diego that was more than a tiny little rumble. I doubt we buy a house on the La Jolla cliffs so I'm not too worried about the earthquake factor even though it does exist. Traffic is an issue that our friends in San Diego have told us about as well, but I'm not too sure about the pollution. Haven't heard much about it from anyone but you, but I also have not went looking for that type of information either.
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). Salaries will be higher too, on average, than NZ. 
