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Ok, I have to jump in here. My wife went for training in houston texas (and just like everywhere else in the world) and there are negatives. Negatives that I personally could not live with. The air is terrible! Due to all the oil processing that they do it makes the air hard at times to breathe. And the summers are HOT HOT HOT!!! They broke records over 110 degrees, my wife hated it. Record Heat of 2011 - weather.com
There is no rain this is true, they have the opposite, drought!!! They crave rain there and when my wife was there she said on the news they hoped for rain because drought was killing crops. Yes there are great jobs there (unlike Florida! I can't believe florida is even a question in here, come on guys!!! Florida is going through a terrible housing crisis, their unemployment as of now is STILL 10.0%, so there are no jobs.) but as with any place you move to. Do research, weigh the positives and negative, and see if this is a place that is right for you. That is my advice. But no where is paradise guys, not in hawaii, aruba, new zealand, texas, miami, nowhere, their are problems everywhere. It is all 100% mental, there are some people living in shack in a third world country and are happy as can be, there are others that live malibu with millions of dollars and are nearly suicidal!
This is the kind of hasty judgement formed on a short term visit. Like somebody who said that the pollution in Honolulu was the same as Houston. Or Lane_change who says that all the homes in FL were indefinitely in disrepair .... There is a severe draught problem in S. CA, quite worse then in TX, which has a bounty of lakes and good rainfall to sustain its population. People in S. CA have to paint their dead lawn green since they are not allowed to water them. The draught in TX is a very rare event, but still you assume that's the way it is in TX, from your short visit.
And we just find out that the pollution in San Diego is worse than in Houston, which surprised most people, including myself.
So if the platform for moving from Houston to San Diego is draught and pollution.... Hello? Are you OK up there? FL wins with flying colors on those issues. HI too of course.
Now if you compare FL and HI, then there are the "other" important issues, more important in fact, like unemployment, decent salaries and cost of living. The unemployment in FL is mostly in the construction industry. After the 2004 hurricanes, a crowd of contractors emigrated in FL, and stayed there because of the construction boom. Now they have nothing to do. And NASA stopped the shuttle, which add to local unemployment in Brevard. But other sectors, like health care, or IT, are doing very well. FL is a heaven for retirees, and health care is booming in FL. Between Miami, Jacksonville, Orlando and Tampa, the professional and IT jobs are just as plentiful as the rest of the nation, if not better.
As far as the house crisis, EXACTLY! Houses are dirt cheap in FL. Gorgeous 3500sf pool homes on half an acre, 1 miles from ocean for $200K. Look at BrevardMLS.com
And the salaries in FL compared to the cost of living are high, I mean probably like Houston.
Add to this the world famous amusement parks, which are not a negligible fun when you have kids. World famous fishing. World famous diving in the gulf stream. Plus the easy access to all the big cities in the East Coast and the South coast. I think that FL is an excellent contender for somebody not wealthy enough to live in HI, or if it gets boring in HI. As you mention very wisely, you can't have it all.
I consider that FL is a big upgrade from Houston, and even from San Diego, if the priorities are clean air and beautiful beaches.
Now the FL job (pay vs cost of life) is also way more favorable than it is in HI and even San Diego. The houising even more so. So, what's wrong considering FL?
Last edited by SurferCocoa; 01-03-2012 at 08:47 AM..
We are heavily leaning towards Hawaii based on the initial research, but San Diego is still our 2nd choice. We are going to plan our summer vacation this year to Hawaii or San Diego and go to the other location in the winter. Probably will do San Diego in the summer and Hawaii in the winter since San Diego does actually get cold unlike Hawaii.
Thats a good idea, feel it out with a trip. Although everyone who takes a trip to Hawaii and SD to a lesser extent, thinks: "hmm wonder if I could get a job here".....good luck.
and.....
@cocoa: Ive never seen someone more paranoid about everything. Just enjoy your comfort zone there and leave the rest of us in misery....
I'm not sure about the employment but she works in IT and had to take a position in Orlando and now she works in Tampa but she lives in Melbourne.
Yes, I can see that. Melbourne is in Brevard, and with 17,000 jobs lost in NASA, we have rocket science engineers roaming the local job market. Especailly they cannot sell their homes. Homes are going to be so cheap in the near future.... like one fourth of the material it costs to build them. But the point is that she still found an IT job nearby! Excellent! This is the reason I do not move to HI. Yes I could find one job, but then what when I lose it. In FL, even with the bad economy, and the exceptional circumstances of a very large NASA lay-off, still she got back on her feet.
I am not sure how your mother in law can keep you out of the whole state of FL. If she works in IT, well she is better than mine.
My mother in law is a tripple chined 280 ponds woman who never worked in her life. Housewife. To tell you how it goes, she does not turn off the TV at night, but put it on mute, because she does not want to wait the 2mn it takes for the screen to come up in the morning.
For some reason, my 7 yo daughter adores her, and would rather confide in her than in me (I am a child counselor!) or her own mom. I think that the mental age of my mother-in-law is about 12yo. This would explain.
No matter where we move she would follow us, so no way to get rid of her.
I have put rules and limits on when she can visit, which is no more than twice a month, and trust me, she won't dare breaking them. And I am not home when she visits.
I ultimately make the best of the situation. On New Year eve, she took the kids to Disney on a 3 days trip, and it was a great break for me and my wife.
The kids like to visit her, and they love it. She teaches them how to cook, knit, make clothes for dolls, lego super expert, play bingo or jeopardy... Very patient. Even my boy like it too! Lol!
My wife works in Orlando, so is not home until 5:30. So her mother drives them to swim lessons, or surf camp, or horse riding lessons. Oh yes, by the way, about 3 to 5 miles inland, we have large equestrians properties in Cocoa and Mims. Lot of horse activity around.
Now, even then, I'll rather not have her around. We do not need her. Not a drop of gratefulness. I could never have a conversation with her. I don't even sit with her at a dinner table. I have an uncontrolable adversion to her. The sound of her voice irritate me. I should be ashamed of it.. but I am not. My heart feels like a stone when I think of her. It's embarrassing, I know, since she is a "good person". Talk of irrational! Me???
If your mother in law was as pesky and clingy as mine, she would have moved next to you, believe me. If she already "has a life", like a job, then
I am not sure what the issues are, and I will not dismiss them neither.
The 2 most typical mother-in-law issues I found are:
nagging, and "your not good enough for my daughter (or son), and you'll never be"
I am not sure if the problem is strictly personal, like a clash of personality, or based on some other concrete facts. I am not in a position to advice you to kiss and make up. Surely not.
I have never seen a case yet, where somebody will not move to a certain city, what to speak of a whole state, just because of a family member living there. In the U.S., families are not such a big deal like in other cultures, and family members living in the same town can stay years without seeing one another. "My cousin lives on 5th St, but I have not seen him in 3 years" is quite the norm in the U.S.
If she lives in another town as you, and she has a job, then, what exactly are you worried about?
The fact is that you are the king of your castle. If she is good with the kids, take advantage of it. If not, make it clear you do not want to see her.
If the "cold silent" treatment does not work, then spell it out. "We do not like you. We do not want to see you."
How often does she visits in TX? Does she visit at all, or do not care about her grand-kids? Does she take interest in their lifes or is she indifferent?
My grand-ma was quite wealthy, but as cold as a fish, and the relationship was nothing more than a $30 BD present and a $30 Xmas present.
If your mother in law is like this, do not worry, moving next ot her will not change anything
If I remember. You said she was from Europe, but live in FL??? Your wife parents were hippies but she has an IT job???? Sounds like very unconventional to me. Whatever it is... sorry.. I like it. As I mentioned before, I lament about the uniformity of the American culture and do appreciate people "out of the mold". It could be a mind expanding experience for your kids. Your wife seem to be a well adjusted educated young woman, so her hippie chldhood do not seem to be negative. At least I did not hear any complaint, besides the moving often.
I am absolutely not telling you to change your feelings for her. Simply, be practical and RATIONAL. Sometimes, like when you talk of moving to N.Z. , especially after being appraised of the facts, I perceive some lack of rational thinking. If this Hippie IT European grand-ma can do any good to the kids, try to milk what you can out of her. If she does not care about her grand-kids, or would be a bad influence on them, completely eradicate her from your life. It does not matter where she lives.
Assuming FL would be the best place for you, and only you could decide, not me, do not tell me that your mother-in-law living there will be the main objection. If she was a stalker type, she could stalk you in TX. How often does she visits? I keep asking this question, since, of course it is important. Her pattern will be similar whether in TX or FL, even if distance is not an issue any more. If she is a child abuser, get a restraining order. Else, FL is big enough for all of you, believe me.
Last edited by SurferCocoa; 01-03-2012 at 11:02 AM..
She doesn't honestly bother me as much as she bothers my wife. I have no qualms about putting her in her place, but my wife still gets intimidated by her and can't imagine living anywhere near here. They don't even talk anymore (years), but they do keep in touch with pictures of the children and such. Our kids receive presents from her and know of her existence, but have only met her twice. Her mother is that person who pries into every aspect of your life to tell you everything you are doing wrong. From what type of photographer we hire for family pictures. We did pictures with our kids at the beach down here and her mom tells us that we are prostituting them....just imagine the worst reactions you could make to any given situation, that is her mother. She has never talked to me much because she doesn't like me and I don't like her, we both know this. My wife got emancipated at 16 just to leave home early and live with a friend's family. Her mother tells us some positive comments as well, like what a good day care we enrolled our son into....except we never told her which school he was enrolled in to. That sort of weird obsessive behavior is so out of touch with the rational world that I cannot imagine living within driving distance of her. My wife's worst fear is that we die, and her mother battles my parents in court over our children even though our will states that our kids will go to my family.
This is way off topic, but somehow pertinent to the fact that Florida is simply a no chance solution for us.
SurferCocoa wrote: "I can say "usually vegetarian are peaceful people"". Yes, but peacefulness isn't the only quality axis. Vegetarians could score lower on other metrics if you measured them (not that I have or believe they would). Like I said, I think you have a rather one-sided view of vegetarianism and the people who live it.
SurferCocoa wrote: "What I say could apply to any 2 countries where one has a significantly better standard of living than another, including weather and topography." I get your point, yes, the US is very appealing, even more so to those who are citizens and can move back anytime. But there are permanant expatriates who, for good reasons or bad reasons, choose another country and prefer it. These people may not be good patriots like yourself, but they are still US citizens and still have a valid experience.
lane_change wrote: "SoCal cannot offer us the true beach life, it can simply offer us a beach." I understand that is your perception, and what applies to your family. But I do believe plenty of people are living the beach life of their preference in SoCal, Santa Barbara, Monterey, Santa Cruz, San Francisco, Bolinas, and on up into the colder regions.
SurferCocoa wrote: "I really do not mean that N.Z. is not a nice place to live in. I realise that I put it down to make my point, and It does not come out the way I would like." Thanks for being honest with yourself, it happens to all of us.
But then: "there is plenty in N. America. All kind. I am planning on an Alaska cruise next summer, and we went to the Grand Cannyon this fall. Hopefully will take a ski trip to Utah in March. What am I missing from N.Z.?" How about close proximity. You have just described long airplane trips and full weeks of vacation. I think you could do easy weekends of hiking and skiiing and fjords in NZ. You are again disregarding the qualities of the place: clean air, ocean (not as cold as believed), and world class outdoor experiences nearby (without the need to fly, rent cars, etc).
The other thing you are conveniently forgetting is that different people have different social and political preferences. The social net that exists in different places (and I'm not just talking about NZ) may be more or less to their liking. How much vacation at jobs, how healthcare is provided and paid for, how entrepreneurs fare, how discrimination is entrenched (or not) in society, what environmental laws and attitudes exist. Regardless of reality, some people may be attracted to certain places because they feel they fit in with regards to these criteria.
And actually, that may be one of the biggest things to consider when moving: how do you fit in socially and politically. Sometimes it sounds like lane_change doesn't like California's (somewhat) left-leaning politics. Hawaii is very union-oriented (in many sectors, but not all), yet both still have the US capitalism. NZ and Europe tend to be much more social-democracies. A lot of people like to say Hawaii is a 3rd-world country or banana republic, but that's usually because they don't agree with the majority here and feel the need to put it down.
lane_change wrote: "I speak French about as well as I speak Japanese, but my wife speaks French pretty close to fluent." Then you should seriously consider the south of France. Climate close to ideal, jobs around Nice-Sofia-Antipolis, great schools, great culture, etc. Not sure about the "beach life," they don't have the surfer culture like CA and HI. But there are definitely ocean and outdoor activities galore (sailboarding, sailing, rock climbing, and skiing a bit further inland). The problem is the work visa, perhaps easier if you can get citizenship somehow for your wife and then yourself through her family.
Thank you for applying your insight into the conversation. I agree that there can be a myriad of possible reasons for people to relocate, and we are trying to keep a level head with our world view, but it's hard not to stereotype or generalize when you have no first hand experience with this countries or areas. I also agree that there is a large difference between a weekend getaway in New Zealand vs. a week long vacation to see similar regions in the US. New Zealand has a very unique attraction to us, we don't know why, it just sounds right to us. Is it right? Probably not. But pre-conceived assumptions are pretty hard to shake. If someone asked me if I would consider moving to Idaho, I would say no. Georgia? No. North Carolina? No. Virginia....maybe. Colorado...maybe. Wisconsin? No. Why I would answer this way I have no idea, but I can apply this same frame of mind to almost anywhere.
I will concede that California can have a beach life similar to Hawaii but the ocean is simply too cold to enjoy imo, which is why I said I would only get the beach, but not the life that I am looking for there. I would prefer to enjoy the water w/o a wet suit.
Thank you for applying your insight into the conversation. I agree that there can be a myriad of possible reasons for people to relocate, and we are trying to keep a level head with our world view, but it's hard not to stereotype or generalize when you have no first hand experience with this countries or areas. I also agree that there is a large difference between a weekend getaway in New Zealand vs. a week long vacation to see similar regions in the US. New Zealand has a very unique attraction to us, we don't know why, it just sounds right to us. Is it right? Probably not. But pre-conceived assumptions are pretty hard to shake. If someone asked me if I would consider moving to Idaho, I would say no. Georgia? No. North Carolina? No. Virginia....maybe. Colorado...maybe. Wisconsin? No. Why I would answer this way I have no idea, but I can apply this same frame of mind to almost anywhere.
I will concede that California can have a beach life similar to Hawaii but the ocean is simply too cold to enjoy imo, which is why I said I would only get the beach, but not the life that I am looking for there. I would prefer to enjoy the water w/o a wet suit.
The one thing you have in San Diego, that makes it a "beach culture" is the bays. This extent of water which are somehow part of the ocean, but very sheltered, quiet as a lake, and a little warmer. It allows year round, including winter, water sports, like water skiing, wind surfing, jet skiing, kayaking... The first time I saw this cluster of tiny little sail boats sailing on Mission Bay, like baby ducks following their mom, in a kids sailing lesson, I had a huge smile up to my ears, and mentally said: "I want my kids to do that".
Unfortunately, winter is also the best time to enjoy the beach, albeit not getting in the water. This is when the pollution is down, and the sun bright. In summer there is rarely real sunshine, it stays very hazy, gloomy almost. Not really cloudy, hard to define. It might well be the smog. And the parking plus the crowds make them out of reach. But in winter, you can spend LOTS of time on the beach. Cool and sunny. Perfect. And this is when the rest of the country suffers snow storms and minus temps. Gloves, boots, hats, thick coats... 10mn in the morning to warm up the car and scrape off the ice off the windshields... dark at 4pm.... and here you are, in a T-shirt and flip flops, watching your kids learning how to wind surf, with a little tear of pride in your eyes. Wet suits are a must of course. This is where the beach culture come from. Not really getting in the water. Just enjoying the beach life style. California dreaming..... what a nice song.
If you go to PB in winter, or Venice beach in LA, there is a crowd. Girls roller blading in thongs, macho guys showing their 6 packs abs, bikers, Mexican families picnicking with loud music, lots of sun bathers... but hardly any body IN the water. This is the "beach culture".
In FL, it is the opposite. The sun is so strong in summer, and the water so inviting, that everybody is IN the water and does not stay too long on the beach, unless it is after 5 or 6pm. I can't spend more than 1 hour on the beach in summer, in FL, unless it is sunset time. And in winter, it is about the same as CA. Miami is more like San Diego or L.A. when it comes to "beach culture", while most other places are much more quiet. Family and snow bird oriented. Very peaceful. Except when it comes to college spring breaks.... Then it can get wild.
Last edited by SurferCocoa; 01-03-2012 at 05:23 PM..
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