Hawaii vs. New Zealand (versus, highest, living, best)
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Lane_change, I do not like to post links, since you can prove anything with selecting what fits your point of view from the internet. But I could not resist this one. I think it is relevant to your research. And it is a very short read. It truly reflects the trend in all of FL.
Now, I am sure somebody will send something to the exact contrary to disprove it... I can only tell you that in Brevard they built 4 new hospitals in the last 5 years. Do your own research anyway.
Remember that when there is a shortage of specific positions, you are in a strong spot to negotiate salaries if you have the right qualifications. They would pay for relocation too, which can amount to several thousands of dollars. You also have more chances of promotions later on.
A friend of mine who worked as a contractor at NASA, was able to find a job in Houston, strangely enough. Since he was such a rare and exact fit for their needs, they proposed to make up the difference between the sale price of his home and the owned mortgage, equal $100K, so that he avoids foreclosure. And help him buy a new home. He is a PHD, of course, with 25 years experience in his branch, highly qualified, and $100K is not much for people in this league. But this is the bargaining power you have when you apply for jobs where there is a high demand, or very specific rare requirements.
Even though I promised myself I will never talk again about N.Z., may I add that each country has it's own specific health care system and medical insurance law and coding. Even in the U.S., a doctor who got his license in Chicago must retake a FL medical exam to practice in FL legally. Lawyers too are licenced in a specific state, and cannot practice anywhere they wish. Some professions are not easily carried to other countries, or even other U.S. states. And I think that your wife's is one of them, at least in foreign countries.
Last edited by SurferCocoa; 01-03-2012 at 07:43 PM..
She doesn't honestly bother me as much as she bothers my wife. I have no qualms about putting her in her place, but my wife still gets intimidated by her and can't imagine living anywhere near here. They don't even talk anymore (years), but they do keep in touch with pictures of the children and such. Our kids receive presents from her and know of her existence, but have only met her twice. Her mother is that person who pries into every aspect of your life to tell you everything you are doing wrong. From what type of photographer we hire for family pictures. We did pictures with our kids at the beach down here and her mom tells us that we are prostituting them....just imagine the worst reactions you could make to any given situation, that is her mother. She has never talked to me much because she doesn't like me and I don't like her, we both know this. My wife got emancipated at 16 just to leave home early and live with a friend's family. Her mother tells us some positive comments as well, like what a good day care we enrolled our son into....except we never told her which school he was enrolled in to. That sort of weird obsessive behavior is so out of touch with the rational world that I cannot imagine living within driving distance of her. My wife's worst fear is that we die, and her mother battles my parents in court over our children even though our will states that our kids will go to my family.
This is way off topic, but somehow pertinent to the fact that Florida is simply a no chance solution for us.
Yes, I have to say, I did not expect something like this. First reaction was: stay away. But it keeps bothering me.
Let's try to unravel this.
So, I ask you how often your mil visits, and you say your kids saw her twice. I think the older is 5yo. So, they do not know her!!!!!! WHAT!!!
These are the possibilities
1) She does not care much about the kids, and is busy with her own life. My grand-ma was like this. Then, she won't bother you in FL. Trust me. Case closed.
2) But you say that your wife worst fear is that she will fight your parents for the kid's custody if you die. THIS is your wife worst fear??? My goodness. Poor woman. This is so fundamently "messed up", I am speechless. So this would mean that you mil would LOVE the kids, so much that she would legally fight for them, as an older lady, probably single (you never say "my wife's parents", so I assume the grand-pa is not in the pic) but she does not visit...
a} because she respects the fact that you dot like to see her, and maybe you let her know openly. Then, she will act the exact same way, even if you live next door to her. She won't bother you in FL . She is an Europen woman who traveled a lot, raised your wife in San Diego, (and we all know what a challenge it is), and has an IT job, so a $300 plane flight to Houston will not stop her to harrass you if she wished to.
b) she bangs on your door, makes a big scene that she wants to see the kids. You have to slam the door on her face, and threaten to call police for trepassing. Well, she will act the same way in FL, except more often. So you should not move to FL.
c) She is a child abuser and molester, and you have to protect the kids from her. So, yes, the farther you are, the easier it is to protect the kids. No FL for you
I also notice that she sends presents even though she does not see the kids, and the kids do not know her apparently. This is quite selfless. I am touched. Grand-parents enjoy to give kids presents, because they expect gratefulnes from them in return, as well as watching them using the gifts. Take this enjoyment out, then it gets quite a beautiful act. I am sure my mil will not give presents to my kids that she cannot enjoy with them. She plays lego and video games like ... well like a 12yo. And my grand-ma will coldly send 2 presents a year: a $30 gift card. Is your mil more generous? Are the presents thoughtful, or are the presents just a polite obligation.
I have a question, to try to go to the bottom of this. Once more, you are the one volunteering the info. I would never ask something like this otherwise. Won't cross my mind.
You know, in royal families, they have hierarchies. There is the 4th in line to the throne. The 9th in line to the throne. Let's say your parents will die tomorrow, and you have no family on your side. And both of you die too. Sorry it is not fun to talk about, but you raised the subject. Would your wife rather have the kids be warden of the State and be given to foster families or up to adoption, or would she rather have her mother take them. What about you?
Obviously, you do not have to answer me. Keep the answers for yourself, if you wish. I mostly want to help you and your wife figure out things in a more objective way. Would I dare say less paranoid way... Because what you are telling me is extremely disturbing, and all of a sudden, somehow, I do not want an alligator to eat your mil anymore.
As far as the kid's pic. Were they naked? Nakedness in children can be seen as appropriate very differently by different persons. 2 yo, easier, but 5 ... this is more at the edge. In Europe, kids can go naked on any beach until about 6 or 7. And of course they have lots of nude beaches for adults too.
In America, people gets in an uproar if they see a topless 2yo little girl. So, I am not sure what you are talking about. Regardless, it seems very petty to me, to turn to the point of preventing kids to see their grand-ma. I know how criticisism can be toxic. But it happen only if you drink the toxin. Else, it is just harmless talk. Every grand-ma has her own idiosyncrasies, and the way to react is to ignore them. Think of people taking care of parents with dementia.
Last edited by SurferCocoa; 01-04-2012 at 08:54 PM..
Yes, I have to say, I did not expect something like this. First reaction was: stay away. But it keeps bothering me.
Let's try to unravel this.
So, I ask you how often your mil visits, and you say your kids saw her twice. I think the older is 5yo. So, they do not know her!!!!!! WHAT!!!
These are the possibilities
1) She does not care much about the kids, and is busy with her own life. My grand-ma was like this. Then, she won't bother you in FL. Trust me. Case closed.
2) But you say that your wife worst fear is that she will fight your parents for the kid's custody if you die. THIS is your wife worst fear??? My goodness. Poor woman. This is so fundamently "messed up", I am speechless. So this would mean that you mil would LOVE the kids, so much that she would legally fight for them, as an older lady, probably single (you never say "my wife's parents", so I assume the grand-pa is not in the pic) but she does not visit...
a} because she respects the fact that you dot like to see her, and maybe you let her know openly. Then, she will act the exact same way, even if you live next door to her. She won't bother you in FL . She is an Europen woman who traveled a lot, raised your wife in San Diego, (and we all know what a challenge it is), and has an IT job, so a $300 plane flight to Houston will not stop her to harrass you if she wished to.
b) she bangs on your door, makes a big scene that she wants to see the kids. You have to slam the door on her face, and threaten to call police for trepassing. Well, she will act the same way in FL, except more often. So you should not move to FL.
c) She is a child abuser and molester, and you have to protect the kids from her. So, yes, the farther you are, the easier it is to protect the kids. No FL for you
I also notice that she sends presents even though she does not see the kids, and the kids do not know her apparently. This is quite selfless. I am touched. Grand-parents enjoy to give kids presents, because they expect gratefulnes from them in return, as well as watching them using the gifts. Take this enjoyment out, then it gets quite a beautiful act. I am sure my mil will not give presents to my kids that she cannot enjoy with them. She plays lego and video games like ... well like a 12yo. And my grand-ma will coldly send 2 presents a year: a $30 gift card. Is your mil more generous? Are the presents thoughtful, or are the presents just a polite obligation.
I have a question, to try to go to the bottom of this. Once more, you are the one volunteering the info. I would never ask something like this otherwise. Won't cross my mind.
You know, in royal families, they have hierarchies. There is the 4th in line to the throne. The 9th in line to the throne. Let's say your parents will die tomorrow, and you have no family on your side. And both of you die too. Sorry it is not fun to talk about, but you raised the subject. Would your wife rather have the kids be warden of the State and be given to foster families or up to adoption, or would she rather have her mother take them. What about you?
Obviously, you do not have to answer me. Keep the answers for yourself, if you wish. I mostly want to help you and your wife figure out things in a more objective way. Would I dare say less paranoid way... Because what you are telling me is extremely disturbing, and all of a sudden, somehow, I do not want an alligator to eat your mil anymore.
As far as the kid's pic. Were they naked? Nakedness in children can be seen as appropriate very differently by different persons. 2 yo, easier, but 5 ... this is more at the edge. In Europe, kids can go naked on any beach until about 6 or 7. And of course they have lots of nude beaches for adults too.
In America, people gets in an uproar if they see a topless 2yo little girl. So, I am not sure what you are talking about. Regardless, it seems very petty to me, to turn to the point of preventing kids to see their grand-ma. I know how criticisism can be toxic. But it happen only if you drink the toxin. Else, it is just harmless talk. Every grand-ma has her own idiosyncrasies, and the way to react is to ignore them. Think of people taking care of parents with dementia.
No, none of the kids are naked. Our oldest is playing in the surf in his board shorts in a few pictures, but we are all dressed. Her description was that the kids look like they are wearing lipstick, so she accuses us of putting lipstick on the kids and crazy thoughts like that.
In regards to not seeing the children, she knows she is not welcome...when she does get to see them it is generally when we have the children's great grandmother visiting from France (very sweet lady) and my wife would never not allow her to visit and when she comes to America, she goes and sees her daughter as well (my mil). One time it was here in Houston, one time my wife took the kids with her to Florida.
My sister would be next in line for the kids if we died, my parents died, etc...her mother does not love the kids as you describe, but she would try and take possession of them in court because in her delusional mind, she is what's best. Again, my wife had to get emancipated at 16 to leave home while still in high school. If you have ever seen the movie "tangled" by Disney, the old witch is a pretty good image of her mother. Fake smiles on the outside, and sinister evil on the inside. Her world revolves around her and whatever makes her happy. Our first son was a blessing in her mother's eyes. He is a prince and deserves everything (he gets the presents (we split them up for our 2nd son). Our 2nd son was a curse, he is ruining the time that we should spend worshiping our 1st son, like the coming of Christ or something. Again, very strange behavior.
No, none of the kids are naked. Our oldest is playing in the surf in his board shorts in a few pictures, but we are all dressed. Her description was that the kids look like they are wearing lipstick, so she accuses us of putting lipstick on the kids and crazy thoughts like that.
In regards to not seeing the children, she knows she is not welcome...when she does get to see them it is generally when we have the children's great grandmother visiting from France (very sweet lady) and my wife would never not allow her to visit and when she comes to America, she goes and sees her daughter as well (my mil). One time it was here in Houston, one time my wife took the kids with her to Florida.
My sister would be next in line for the kids if we died, my parents died, etc...her mother does not love the kids as you describe, but she would try and take possession of them in court because in her delusional mind, she is what's best. Again, my wife had to get emancipated at 16 to leave home while still in high school. If you have ever seen the movie "tangled" by Disney, the old witch is a pretty good image of her mother. Fake smiles on the outside, and sinister evil on the inside. Her world revolves around her and whatever makes her happy. Our first son was a blessing in her mother's eyes. He is a prince and deserves everything (he gets the presents (we split them up for our 2nd son). Our 2nd son was a curse, he is ruining the time that we should spend worshiping our 1st son, like the coming of Christ or something. Again, very strange behavior.
Once more, I should mot mingle. This is way too big to address on a public forum. But I give you some general observations of mine.
I asked you if your mil was the last family member available, would you rather have the kids be warden of the State rather than your mil having them, and you did not answer.
Part of my counseling career is to advise the court on child custody issues. I am not a marriage counselor. I solely represent the rights and well-being of the kids.
When people divorce "bitterly", one of their goal is to win the kids, as a "strike" to the other mate. A good chance to blurt out how bad the other one is. Another incentive is that the one who wins custody is entitled to child support from the other spouse, even if he/she makes less money. The kids are the biggest trophy they could ever win. Even if you do not have those motivations, I still recognize the language.
Trust me, I hear the most extravagant claims, and trust me, they usually have no foundations.
Any claim of child sexual molestation, or severe physical abuse, I call the authorities, an investigation is made, and if the claims are true, I never take a chance. The best I would allow is supervised visitations. So, this special case is taken out of the equation in this discussion. I hope!
For light physical abuse, I will consider the circumstances, and usually will order parenting classes or anger management. You don't take away somebody's kids, or terminate their parental rights, just because they snapped under stress, and their kid is a nagging brat. Just insure it will not happen again.
So, this is when I hear the kind of things you describe above. I have to figure out the truth out of all this. I do need Sherlock Holmes skills to pierce through all the emotions, perceived reality, delusions, or plain lies.
The first thing I notice on the 1st message on the topic, is that you described your wife worst fear... and you say: "for me, I just put her back in her place". You will never say that if your mil was such a menace. You describe very well in fact the correct attitude in those circumstances.
This is enough for me to determine that your mil is fit enough to visit the kids once or twice a year, even if you would not like her to take full custody of them. Or spend a 2 weeks vacation at her place without you being present.
I also notice that you are a laid back easy going person. For example, you do not have a strong career of your own, but say your wife's one determines where you go. Or I love your quote "live and let live". And will use it in my sessions.
On the other hand, your wife has a strong drive. Knowing that she just got a master and aspire to get a PHD, for a mother of 2 working full time... takes lot of guts. A "strong" lady.
So, if your mil is also a strong headed personality, I can see conflicts. I am not going to examine each of your claims. They are nothing more than what I call "character assasination", with all the evil witch reference and all.
I hear this type of things all the time. And what you say is so TYPICAL, that it is text book, in my profession.
I deal with teens. Most of them would love to be on their own, or be emancipated like your wife did. They make outlandish claims about the parents, embellishing their woes as time goes, in a frantic hope to convince me. If the words witch and evil come up especially, this is a loud alarm to me. Add Jesus Christ, and it is a sure bet. As I say, text book. Yeah right! I mean, only one case out of 70 is a justified case to give emancipation to a 16yo, or take him away from his parents. I do not say it does not happen. Unfortuantely, there is still children abused in the U.S., or bad parents, but we have way more overly spoiled brats than abused children.
Divorcing parents are saying similar things about one another. You hear all those horrible stories about this dirty selfish pig (or ****), %%$$## @@%$%$#%&$#%$, and when you finally meet the "monster" ... they seem so rational that you feel sorry for them they have to live with the other gal. It kind of turn agaisnt the accusing parents. Now, when they both do the same.... phew.... sarcastically... chin chin, I will make very good money in their case. Will take time.
TRUTH and honesty, is a pilar in any personal relationship. Much more than in business.
A good way for me to "cut the crap" (forgive my expression), is to invoke my version of the biblical Salomon story. You know when 2 women claim they are the mother of the same baby, and Salomon says: "OK, cut the baby in two".
So I ask: OK, if I give you sole custody and you die, and your spouse is the only survivor in the family, would you prefer your kids to become ward of the State and be put in foster care, or would you rather have your spouse take them.
If they answer "my spouse". Then it is clear cut. Nothing more to discuss. It means the other parent is "fit enough" to have his kids at least half of the time.
If the answer is "Foster care", then, depending on the situation it might give me more insights, one way or another.
If I already have doubts about the other spouse, then this might reinforce my own feelings. Yes this guy really should not have the kids. It's that bad.
But if I had doubt about the sincerity of the person giving the answer, and confidence on the other party, it might well be that just like Salomon find out: this person does not give a damn about his/her kids. He/she just want or personal victory or his/her personal feelings come in the way of sound judgement, to the point of going against the kids best interests.
I would never make a decision only on the replies to the question, of course. Simply it helps reinforce my previous observations, and often give me an easy way to make a clear cut decision, when I am not completely sure, and still have vague hesitations.
So, here is an easy way to sort out this messy situation for you and your wife. Be honest, be truthful. It is so very SIMPLE.
If you'll rather have your kids in foster care, in the event that the only family they have left is your mil, then yes, cut the links. I don't know her, so I cannot form my own opinion.
Else, then she is a fit enough grand-ma to visit her grand-kids once in a while. Do I care about your mil??? Surely not. I just think it is good for the kids to know their grand-ma love them. I know that my grand-ma coldness and indifference is a sad spot in my heart. It should not matter... but it does. Hard to find genuine love on this planet. When somebody is biologically conditioned to love you, but does not.... it hurts.
It is good for them to hear about other perspectives in life, as your wife and her mother surely have.
It's not like she is moving in with you! Just tolerate her sayings, pur her back in her place (good job, O.P.), roll your eyes to the ceiling... and be glad you do not have an handicapped or ill parent to take care of.
And in the almost impossible event that, yes, their grand-ma is their only relative alive, at least, they will know her, and they will need lots of comforting, as you can imagine.
Of course, this blog does not belong here, but it is still remotely linked on the FL as an option for a move.... even if so personal, so I guess it's OK.
Last edited by SurferCocoa; 01-05-2012 at 09:59 AM..
If we had no remaining blood relatives on the plantes, uncles, aunts, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, grandparents, etc...then I would probably try and find a friend. Given your black/white question, I honestly don't know the answer to that. I have friends that do foster care and I would definitely rather have my children living in their home than with my mil. If I picture the orphanages of the early 20th century, or kids living on the street like Newsies, than I may be inclined to allow her the option, but we are getting pretty far fetched here. Is she abusive? Yes. Physically? Yes. Emotionally? Yes. Does she honestly have a split personality, I don't know...seems like it to me, but I'm not a psychiatrist.
If we had no remaining blood relatives on the plantes, uncles, aunts, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, grandparents, etc...then I would probably try and find a friend. Given your black/white question, I honestly don't know the answer to that. I have friends that do foster care and I would definitely rather have my children living in their home than with my mil. If I picture the orphanages of the early 20th century, or kids living on the street like Newsies, than I may be inclined to allow her the option, but we are getting pretty far fetched here. Is she abusive? Yes. Physically? Yes. Emotionally? Yes. Does she honestly have a split personality, I don't know...seems like it to me, but I'm not a psychiatrist.
I talked to my mother about Hawaii and even with her experience living there being over 30yrs ago, she told me the same thing....Hawaii is very hard for children. She says that it is hard to adapt to the culture and it's difficult being a Haole in Hawaii. She was in the military when she was there, which she said makes it easier since you are surrounded by like minded people in the same situation as you are in. She thinks if we chose to move there as civilians, that the kids may struggle with it and would recommend California over Hawaii.
I talked to my mother about Hawaii and even with her experience living there being over 30yrs ago, she told me the same thing....Hawaii is very hard for children. She says that it is hard to adapt to the culture and it's difficult being a Haole in Hawaii. She was in the military when she was there, which she said makes it easier since you are surrounded by like minded people in the same situation as you are in. She thinks if we chose to move there as civilians, that the kids may struggle with it and would recommend California over Hawaii.
Yes. I was saying that HI is perfect for YOU, (not exactly the kids), only too happy to stir you away from N.Z. Plus I am absolutely sure you cannot afford it. So, just like N.Z., I argued knowing very well you will not make it there.
There is even a good chance that, in a short visit to Ohau, you could be so bitterly desappointed, more so than with FL. It is very possible. The hype for HI is from tourist who visit mostly the nice exotic spots. The daily life in HI is not very glamorous. The houses look surely worse than in FL.
CA is much more mainstream for the kids. To be able to go on and around the beaches in winter is truly a very special privilege. The outdoor life is outstanding, when you include the back mountains. Though do not even think of going skiing in Big Bear on weekends, or any sunny day with plenty of snow. You have more chances to win the big jackpot at the Lottery than being able to buy a lift tocket, or even parking overthere.
At equal pollution, I'll still rather live in San Diego than Houston, of course. But I already spelled out my reservations with CA, so no point to get into it again.
Last edited by SurferCocoa; 01-05-2012 at 01:50 PM..
Reason: spelling
Tons of people are fleeing California for places like Texas to be able to afford a home. Just saying that as the OP seems to have good jobs, a big home, and all the other amenities.
Hawaii is certainly a special place and could be worth the sacrifices for a different culture and vibe. I always feel like california or Texas, you're just going to malls, strip malls, highways, freeways, etc. You could be anywhere.
La Jolla and other places are amazing, but given the choice of looking at a beach and everything being the same, but paying 5x more, I'd opt for Galveston.
Of course if La Jolla is affordable with the budget, than certainly it would be better. But for most, it's a bit unattainable.
Tons of people are fleeing California for places like Texas to be able to afford a home. Just saying that as the OP seems to have good jobs, a big home, and all the other amenities.
Hawaii is certainly a special place and could be worth the sacrifices for a different culture and vibe. I always feel like california or Texas, you're just going to malls, strip malls, highways, freeways, etc. You could be anywhere.
La Jolla and other places are amazing, but given the choice of looking at a beach and everything being the same, but paying 5x more, I'd opt for Galveston.
Of course if La Jolla is affordable with the budget, than certainly it would be better. But for most, it's a bit unattainable.
I totally agree. The summers are horrible in CA because so severely overcrowded, severe draught, and unavoidable pollution.
The winters are great in San Diego, with less pollution, and enjoying being at the beach. But it has become too big of a city to my taste.
And frankly, TX also has a great weather in winter.
FL has a much more tranquil pace. Lots of small quaint little towns all along the Ocean, where Nature is never far away. A few popular beaches, like Miami or Cocoa beach get lively, but else there are miles of quiet serene beaches, uncrowded enough for endangered turtles to hid their nest.
For me clean air is an absolute must, and warm ocean. And being able to save money makes me feel very comfy.
So, as I was telling the O.P., if FL is not an option, the nicer areas of Houston are probably his best bet, if he starts looking at all the good part of it, instead of the bad. There are great places to live in Houston.
Considering all factors, imo, only FL would be worth a move.
With the clean air factor, and the warm water beaches, being the biggest advantages over TX. And the abundance of Health Care jobs coupled with low cost of living, not negligeable ones.
May I add that for the O.P., with the kind of undescript profession of his, it would be very hard to find a job in FL. If you have only a hight school degree, even with manegieral experience, jobs will be very scarce and not paying well. The wife will have to be almost the only bread winner. It might affect the relationship a little. The same situation would be true for HI and CA. Houston is the best place for him to have a decent job, and be a proud father.
Last edited by SurferCocoa; 01-06-2012 at 06:47 AM..
Reason: spelling
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