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In terms of metros, obviously Richmond comes third but as a city, I think of it as tops in VA. It doesn't have a lot of supporting cast like NOVA and Hampton Roads which function as multinodal regions compared to Richmond whose metro revolves solely around it.
It's actually Norfolk..... The most populated/biggest city in Virginia. I guess it's subjective though.
It's actually Norfolk..... The most populated/biggest city in Virginia. I guess it's subjective though.
Well the most populated city in Virginia is actually Virginia Beach, but it's not a traditionally urban city. I think Norfolk is a close second to Richmond but I can see an argument for Norfolk over Richmond.
I love this website. I am a bit of a booster/homer lol, but I don't take myself too seriously, or the people on here. I've learned a lot more on this site than not, and anyway just like in real life, you meet conflicting personalities and views. Some people here take this joint way too tough, it's not that serious. I embrace debate, even if I'm the voice of an unpopular statement....
That said, this is not a homer statement, but I just don't agree that Norfolk is even arguable for the top city in Virginia, and I've been there many times. I was there last Monday. And this is just in MY experience, not speaking for anyone else here, but in my lifetime of being not only a Virginia native of two regions, but familiar with every region of the Commonwealth, the only people I've ever met who rank Norfolk over Richmond are a) some Norfolk natives (not all) and b) people only familiar with Norfolk, but not Richmond. That's it...
As has been pointed out by other posters, Norfolk is a part of a region of cities where there is no true focal point. Traditionally, Norfolk shared that distinction with Portsmouth, and as it grew past Portsmouth in the last half century, Virginia Beach has stepped in to Portsmouth's void. It is undeniable that Norfolk is the most urbanized city in the area, but the fact of the matter is the culture and economy of Hampton Roads isn't entirely predicated off of Norfolk, and never has been. Norfolk most often is the first city that comes to mind when you speak of the area, but to many people, Virginia Beach is first in word association, and in fact challenges Norfolk in terms of attractions and carries the same amount of weight in the local economy. The fact that the two are largely autonomous (you can be on Virginia Beach Boulevard and not realize you've crossed from one city into the next unless you are from there; the cities look identical in the immediate miles of their borders) isn't a bad thing, but it does prove there isn't a singular identity in the area. Richmond doesn't have this issue...
Norfolk isn't as cosmopolitan as Richmond; obviously isn't as important SINGULARLY on a state OR federal level; isn't as educated; doesn't have the economic diversity; doesn't have as many venues or neighborhoods of historical importance; doesn't have the arts or theatre scene that Richmond has; is more compact in density but isn't as urban or "city"-like; and I'll leave it there for now. My question to all people who considers Norfolk the top city is a serious one that I'm honest I don't know the answer to: for what reasons and what categories does Norfolk (the city, not the region) have Richmond city beat?
It seems to me every time this convo has arisen in my life, people find it difficult to disattach Norfolk city from Greater Hampton Roads. It's pretty clear to the majority of Virginians what the alpha city in the Commonwealth is, and the only reason I say that with such certainty is because I know the State and the convo does come up every once in awhile. Hampton Roads as a region is debatable as being above Greater Richmond as a region, but on a pure city to city comparison, there is absolutely NOTHING that can be found in Norfolk that can't be done in Richmond---but their is plenty of things Richmond offers that Norfolk doesn't....
Somebody just please tell me the criteria for believing Norfolk is above Richmond...
Well now, since youre running away from New Orleans, after you've done talked trash about Baltimore and blamed DC for Richmonds stunted growth...now once again acting like a very delusional Richmond homer, you decide to try and attack Norfolk. SMH. You can like Richmond all you want, but like many delusional Richmond homers (I didn't think you were like that), its hard to talk up Richmond without trying to negatively mention another place. Richmonds stunted growth was Richmonds fault, not DC's.
Although the counties Henrico( short pump)/ Chesterfield etc. surrounding Richmond, pretty much act as the same as Chesapeake city and Virginia Beach city does to Norfolk... and the cities of Portsmouth and Suffolk are to Norfolk, pretty much what the cities of Hopewell and Petersburg are to Richmond...we'll act like poor little Richmond/Tri Cities is all alone in anchoring its little metro. The only difference is VA Beach boomed while Richmond fell off (worried about topping its murder rate from the previous year) and now even Chesapeake has grown beyond Richmonds population. While Hopewell and Petersburg don't know how to challenge Richmond like the cities of HR "challenge" Norfolk, that is not Norfolks fault, maybe one day they'll have something to offer.
One thing Norfolk doesn't seem to posses is a concern about Richmond like Richmonds concern for Norfolk and all things Tidewater. So since you would like to know, I will quickly tell you what Norfolk posses that little Richmond does not.
Norfolk posses the 1st and ONLY Light Rail line in Virginia.
Norfolk posses the #1 ranked hospital in the Commonwealth.
Norfolk posses the 1st and (only?) World Trade Center in Virginia
Norfolk posses the Virginia Zoo
Norfolk posses the Virginia Symphony Orchestra(for awhile the only one between Baltimore and Atlanta)
Norfolk posses the Virginia Opera
Norfolk posses the Virginia Arts Festival
Norfolk posses its own beaches
Norfolk posses the Norva, voted the best big room by Rolling Stone (placing it with the likes of the Beacon, Shoebox, Fox Theatre, Radio City Music Hall etc.)
Norfolk home to the MEAC Tournment
Norfolk posses the Ted Constant Center (voted the best arena under 10,000 cap.)
Norfolk posses Harbor Park and the AAA affiliate of the Orioles; minor league baseball
Norfolk posses minor league hockey.
Norfolk posses the only home to NATO in the US
Norfolk posses an active 3 story upscale mall in its downtown.
Norfolk posses an active downtown with few vacancies.
Norfolk posses the #2 ranking by population in the Commonwealth and once was 309,000 stronger than Richmond.
Norfolk posses the illest Urban Radio in Virginia and the spirit to go with it.
Norfolk also posses a fairly new Arts District who's scene is already baring fruit
SONG of THE SUMMER right here!!!^^^^
these are just off the top of my head, things Norfolk has that Richmond doesnt. Its sad when Norfolk, with all of its surrounding competition: Virginia Beach, Newport News, Chesapeake, Hampton etc. has lead the way in so many things "cosmopolitan" that provincial "cap city" Richmond has been too slow to exemplify to its fellow Virginians...too busy worried about living off of the dead and deceased confederate history. We don't sweat Richmond here. Richmond is big time to the rural folks to the west and south of it. And hear some folks tell it, people from Southside(Danville/Martinsville) head to Greensboro and even Raleigh before Richmond.SMH. Richmond cant do nothing for the 757 except issue birth certificates and possibly hear cases on appeal. Oh, and sabotaging progress of places in the Commonwealth it feels jealous of, including itself. And there are places in the surrounding counties with a Richmond address? We don't do that around here. Don't act like Henrico and Chesterfield don't seamlessly blend into Richmond.
For all this talk about what Richmond is supposed to be...EVERYBODY else from VA and elsewhere don't seem to choose to be there...judging from its small city and metro population. They have made their way here though, "non diversified" economy and all. If professional sports locate to Virginia it will be either Norfolk or Virginia Beach to receive it, not "alpha city" Richmond.Lol. Richmond cant even get a stadium built for the Flying Squirrels. SMH. Alpha city? And Im not talking about no funky a...Skins. You can like Richmond all you want, you should learn to do so by not trying to throw shade on other places. Its one thing to defend ya home, its another thing to talk all reckless about other places. I know Richmonders are frustrated while Hampton Roads got attention in the 80/90's and now Northern Virginia and Raleigh are getting attention (even Charlottesville) it has been overlooked...Richmond needs to just play its position and stop worrying about Hampton Roads and Northern Virginia...we (Hampton Roads) don't be worried about yall. Its weird, everyone in Virginia seems to be worried about somewhere else in Virginia except US.
Last edited by 757Cities Southsider; 04-14-2015 at 03:49 PM..
You can like Richmond all you want, you should learn to do so by not trying to throw shade on other places. Its one thing to defend ya home, its another thing to talk all reckless about other places.
This made lol.
But seriously man, Norfolk is a decent place but Richmond has us beat (that's right, I live in Norfolk too). It's building way more cultural significance than we are and has done far better in building name recognition and economic development than us. The truth is we ARE stifled by the federal government. If anything, Norfolk lives in DC's shadow more than Richmond does. As someone who works for the City of Norfolk, I'll just say we've spent a lot of time and effort (and funds) on branding and communications to help generate some cultural and economic interest in this city, both of which seem to come more organically to Richmond.
If you take a look at things like financial impact and importance on a world scale, Richmond comes in ahead of both Norfolk and New Orleans on some lists (specifically GaWC's report from 2012). There's something to be said about that. Richmond's a medium-sized city that packs a pretty big punch. Unfortunately, Norfolk is playing catch up. I know our local decision makers would love to be in either Richmond's or New Orleans's place because both get the resources we don't.
In other words, if the poll said "Norfolk vs. New Orleans" I think we all know what it would look like.
Don't see how Norfolk is under DC's shadow. That was a very bad comparison..... Baltimore is under DC's shadow not Norfolk which is 4 hours away...... I guess you can make a case Norfolk is under Virginia Beaches shadow because VB gets more tourism. Although, no..... Norfolk is not under DC's shadow at all. These two cities do not rival eacheter in any sort of way.
Although, no..... Norfolk is not under DC's shadow at all. These two cities do not rival eacheter in any sort of way.
That's not what "being DC's shadow" means. Of course Norfolk doesn't rival DC. But Norfolk is a government town whose economy is dependent upon federal spending. So I was referring to DC as the seat of our federal government, and the fact that Norfolk relies on it. Should those federal dollars be spent elsewhere, Norfolk would lose the lifeblood of its economy and be in serious trouble.
But seriously man, Norfolk is a decent place but Richmond has us beat (that's right, I live in Norfolk too). It's building way more cultural significance than we are and has done far better in building name recognition and economic development than us. The truth is we ARE stifled by the federal government. If anything, Norfolk lives in DC's shadow more than Richmond does. As someone who works for the City of Norfolk, I'll just say we've spent a lot of time and effort (and funds) on branding and communications to help generate some cultural and economic interest in this city, both of which seem to come more organically to Richmond.
If you take a look at things like financial impact and importance on a world scale, Richmond comes in ahead of both Norfolk and New Orleans on some lists (specifically GaWC's report from 2012). There's something to be said about that. Richmond's a medium-sized city that packs a pretty big punch. Unfortunately, Norfolk is playing catch up. I know our local decision makers would love to be in either Richmond's or New Orleans's place because both get the resources we don't.
In other words, if the poll said "Norfolk vs. New Orleans" I think we all know what it would look like.
From your perspective Grendel. You value places like Portland and Seattle, and Austin type vibey places, where as I do not. It may be better suited for you but, Richmond does not beat any thing to me. Yes it is the capital and so forth but that doesn't mean anything to me. If you fancy yourself along the lines of a hipster then Richmond is the spot for you...and the grass is always greener. Either way, I already listed things Norfolk(alone) has that Richmond does not, like she asked. And many of these things Norfolk had before Richmond especially Arts/theatre/Museums/LRT... so Norfolk may be playing catch up to YOU for what it is YOU want and like...but I did not move from the suburbs to Norfolk...I came from downtown. As far as "branding" the city...the "people" brand the city...certain folks just don't like the branding. If you notice the two videos Ive posted, I wonder if you folks who work for the city, know of the people in those vids and other street level stuff going on out here.
It is actually Richmond, that is playing catch up because it was written off for crime and had a population less than Newport News (197,000) not too long ago, so I don't see how you missed that. It has underperformed for a state capital, especially of THIS state. Stifled by the feds or sabotaged by the state capital or not, Norfolk can coast until it figures out its next few moves, it is not withering away and has all the things I mentioned, while engaged in "competition" from other cities around it. All I can say is, some places have name recognition and hype, and some places actually produce some cool azz people...the type that show the "hip and cool" people what the next "hip and cool" thing is.
Also, I don't see how you come to the conclusion that Norfolk lives in DCs shadow when it is not on 95 and is in a cul de sac. To WHO, does Norfolk live in DCs shadow? We don't even move like that. That's odd you would say that because Richmond is the place that used to be under DCs influence... we're known for doing our own thing. I don't know what they do down at City Hall, Im talking about people on the street. Aside from the closest sports team DC has no influence ( Im not talking about capitol hill and the pentagon either).
Last edited by 757Cities Southsider; 04-14-2015 at 04:25 PM..
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