Charlotte/Raleigh vs Kansas City/St.Louis (Chicago, raise, economy)
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RDU and CLT maybe better than KCI and STL but anything else is a solid no!
Some people write stuff they know nothing about. St. Louis and KC has better freeway system street grid and LRT coverage (atleast in St. Louis) than Raleigh and Charlotte. That makes way for more urban living options.
In addition, according to the latest (2018) TomTom Traffic Index, only 8 cities in the United States - the biggest of them about half KC's size, two of them in North Carolina, none in the Triangle unless Winston-Salem counts - and 11 (of 403 cities measured) worldwide have less traffic congestion than Kansas City. It's definitely the least congested city with a metro population of 2+ million.
That stat may explain why light rail transit proposals have had a difficult time gaining traction there. Since driving is so frictionless, there's less incentive to consider the alternatives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas75
The housing stock in Midwest cities tends to be older than in Southern cities. For housing of the same age and square footage, I wonder if Charlotte and Raleigh/Durham are truly more costly than Kansas City and St. Louis.
I'm not sure of the answer, but comparing reasonably equivalent neighborhoods/zip codes (ex. Overland Park vs. south Charlotte) would be interesting. It's also possible that the disinvested areas in these two Midwest cities lower their average/median housing values. Charlotte and Raleigh/Durham have some lower income sections but not much in the way of areas that have largely emptied out.
I'm pretty sure empty lots don't factor into the median-house-price statistics.
I can tell you (and have already mentioned here) that apartments in the new buildings in downtown Kansas City now rent for as much as they do in the downtowns of the Northeastern cities. I don't know what the comparable rents are for downtown Charlotte, Raleigh or Durham.
I typically avoid vacationing in hot humid places as an adult.
You must vacation outside of Missouri then. The humidity in St. Louis last Summer when I was there was every bit as oppressive as Jacksonville or Houston.
I get that some prefer the more 'old urban' setup of KC and St. Louis, but their best days are behind them. Charlotte and Raleigh are ascending now, and there is nothing wrong with rooting for them on their way up.
I consider them to be better Cities, in a better State and Region.
You must vacation outside of Missouri then. The humidity in St. Louis last Summer when I was there was every bit as oppressive as Jacksonville or Houston.
I get that some prefer the more 'old urban' setup of KC and St. Louis, but their best days are behind them. Charlotte and Raleigh are ascending now, and there is nothing wrong with rooting for them on their way up.
I consider them to be better Cities, in a better State and Region.
I think that's an overblown statement to make. Yes, St Louis at the moment is having some struggles, but KC is doing pretty darn well with its great economy and reversing population declines from the 80's and 90's. I for one see KC continuing its booming growth, and I also see St Louis turning things around due to its historic nature, as well as how popular and well known it is (despite being a fairly smaller major city).
So yeah, Charlotte/Raleigh are booming now, but KC is booming too and shows zero signs of slowing down, and St Louis has tons of potential of turning things around too, just like Detroit and Cleveland. I don't see how you can make a definitive statement like "their best days are behind them", when a city like KC growing right in front of our eyes.
The regional bias on this website is pretty crazy, and it almost always prefers every region in the U.S. except for the Midwest. At some point we need to throw these dated ideas out and realize the Midwest is just as good, if not better than a region like the south. You're fully entitled to your opinion, but this mass belief that the Midwest is just a freezing, barren wasteland with nothing but declining rust belt cities and a purely bleak future needs to be thrown in the garbage already. Again, not aiming this at you, just saying this in general.
I think that's an overblown statement to make. Yes, St Louis at the moment is having some struggles, but KC is doing pretty darn well with its great economy and reversing population declines from the 80's and 90's. I for one see KC continuing its booming growth, and I also see St Louis turning things around due to its historic nature, as well as how popular and well known it is (despite being a fairly smaller major city).
So yeah, Charlotte/Raleigh are booming now, but KC is booming too and shows zero signs of slowing down, and St Louis has tons of potential of turning things around too, just like Detroit and Cleveland. I don't see how you can make a definitive statement like "their best days are behind them", when a city like KC growing right in front of our eyes.
The regional bias on this website is pretty crazy, and it almost always prefers every region in the U.S. except for the Midwest. At some point we need to throw these dated ideas out and realize the Midwest is just as good, if not better than a region like the south. You're fully entitled to your opinion, but this mass belief that the Midwest is just a freezing, barren wasteland with nothing but declining rust belt cities and a purely bleak future needs to be thrown in the garbage already. Again, not aiming this at you, just saying this in general.
KC and St. Louis used to be among the largest and most important cities in the country, but as we all know those days are in the past. Those levels of prominence and stature are gone, and they aren't coming back. Neither one can even support nonstop flights to Europe nowadays.
That's not to say that they both don't have their positives and are experiencing growth, but their glory days are behind them.
I'm originally from the Midwest, and like millions of others now live in the Southeast - by choice. I see way more anti-Southern bias here than any negatives regarding the Midwest. It's held up as a utopia by many here.
I'm originally from the Midwest, and like millions of others now live in the Southeast - by choice. I see way more anti-Southern bias here than any negatives regarding the Midwest. It's held up as a utopia by many here.
Atlanta is what it is today because when the rest of the Deep South doubled down on segregation, Atlanta didn't.
That made all the difference.
The legacy of the Civil Rights era remains the albatross hanging from the South's neck.
You must vacation outside of Missouri then. The humidity in St. Louis last Summer when I was there was every bit as oppressive as Jacksonville or Houston.
I get that some prefer the more 'old urban' setup of KC and St. Louis, but their best days are behind them. Charlotte and Raleigh are ascending now, and there is nothing wrong with rooting for them on their way up.
I consider them to be better Cities, in a better State and Region.
Yes, St. Louis can be just as hot and humid, but for not as long usually.
However, I don’t vacation anywhere east of the Plains except for far northern places.
Better cities, state, and region? To each their own.
Once I discovered the midwest and realized it was comparatively cleaner, more engaged, more community-minded, I decided I liked it a whole lot better.
The housing stock in Midwest cities tends to be older than in Southern cities. For housing of the same age and square footage, I wonder if Charlotte and Raleigh/Durham are truly more costly than Kansas City and St. Louis.
I'm not sure of the answer, but comparing reasonably equivalent neighborhoods/zip codes (ex. Overland Park vs. south Charlotte) would be interesting. It's also possible that the disinvested areas in these two Midwest cities lower their average/median housing values. Charlotte and Raleigh/Durham have some lower income sections but not much in the way of areas that have largely emptied out.
I agree. I know newer higher end housing can be more expensive in St. Louis. (Don't know about Kansas City) Mid range housing may be about the same but the lower end may be lower and at a better price point in rust belt cities.
Taxes are higher in North Carolina compared to Missouri. N. Carolina cities definitely don't deliver on things related to public infrastructure and museum-park district type stuff. But there again, the state of North Carolina is a far superior state imo. I would even go so far as to give it a top 10 ranking. Their cities are high growth cities. But the Missouri cities are well established and better at being big cities.
N. Carolina cities seem to be an attractive spot for NYC and DC type
of transplants. Not so much for the midwest. But everyone likes what everyone likes. Both states offers attractive living options for different people with different ideals.
KC and St. Louis used to be among the largest and most important cities in the country, but as we all know those days are in the past. Those levels of prominence and stature are gone, and they aren't coming back. Neither one can even support nonstop flights to Europe nowadays.
That's not to say that they both don't have their positives and are experiencing growth, but their glory days are behind them.
I'm originally from the Midwest, and like millions of others now live in the Southeast - by choice. I see way more anti-Southern bias here than any negatives regarding the Midwest. It's held up as a utopia by many here.
Again, what makes you correct about this? Kansas City can't have good days again? New York was once prominent, and it still is. So I don't understand your logic that at one point a city was thriving, therefore it's all downhill from here......
Charlotte has a major airport, as does especially Atlanta, but most southern cities also don't have non-stop flights to Europe. However Kansas City IS in the process of completely rebuilding their airport and knocking down its current one (which IMO is the worst American airport I've ever been to in my life). I'd be willing to bet with a larger and significantly more modern airport, extended service to different countries will become a bigger possibility.
I don't at all see this "anti-southern" bias you speak of, outside of maybe the historic racial segregation/slavery by some. I hear nothing but praise about pretty much every NC city, Atlanta, Nashville, Chattanooga, Austin, Houston, Charleston.... the list goes on. The only cities that get some praise in the Midwest are Chicago and Minneapolis it seems. And even those cities get knocked immediately due to weather alone. If the south didn't have warm weather, I don't think it would be seeing as big of growth as it currently is.
KC and St. Louis used to be among the largest and most important cities in the country, but as we all know those days are in the past. Those levels of prominence and stature are gone, and they aren't coming back. Neither one can even support nonstop flights to Europe nowadays.
That's not to say that they both don't have their positives and are experiencing growth, but their glory days are behind them.
I'm originally from the Midwest, and like millions of others now live in the Southeast - by choice. I see way more anti-Southern bias here than any negatives regarding the Midwest. It's held up as a utopia by many here.
You seem to by trying to present your opinion as fact in a lot of your posts, and plenty of it is pretty off base. Out of curiosity, do you have any clue how the airline industry operates? Your comment above seems to show you don't, and you are trying to use something you're ignorant about as support for other things you're ignorant about...
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