Charlotte/Raleigh vs Kansas City/St.Louis

[Caesarstl]

Originally Posted by JMatl

The bottom line here is that you are beyond clueless when it comes to this subject, and are clearly in over your head. It's simply pathetic that a Metro of St. Louis's size and stature can't support a flight to London, when many smaller places do. InBev and Mansanto obviously don't see the value in subsidizing one, and the O&D clearly isn't there.

Sad.

This would be kind of cute on a child like level if it wasn't so prominent in our society today... made extra, extra clear by your closing choice, "sad." Do you really think people can't see through all of these deflections and bluffs? When asked for evidence on your bold and completely unsubstantiated claim, your response basically boils down to, my source is me... I gave you, in my second response to your claim, several avenues to pursue to support your claim if you wished to actually try and say something (hint, I did it because I am prepared to discuss it, and interested in your thoughts, but you've since showed by literally just repeating those avenues I gave you to work with and acting like you came up with them no less, that you don't actually have anything to say at all... despite claiming to work in the sector... how interesting...)

Here's the conversation in case you missed it:

Here you are starting it in post 94:
"Neither one can even support nonstop flights to Europe nowadays." (Talking of STL & KC)

My amused response is post 100 first asking if you actually know anything about the airline industry (as opposed to just cherry picking super biased style, which let's face it, your totally random comment is just that...)

You respond in post 106:
"Yes, I know the industry very well actually. I've been in it for over 20 years."


O cool! We can have a real conversation then, I answer in post 109 with critical evidence of other unsupported claims of yours that were disproved, but give you lots of options to discuss this:

"O really? Then how about you elaborate on your claim. Is it like when you said this, "Charlotte has already surpassed St. Louis in almost every category, with Higher Ed being the exception." but then got called out and had to back peddle and say that you actually just meant in terms of commerce (also debatable) ?

If you're in the airline industry than what would you like to discuss to support your random claim? General O&D passenger numbers are fairly close(Ouch, gues you'll ignoe this right? and then try to claim it as yours later...) (do you have current destination by destination numbers? business class breakdowns? etc?These are things a supposed industry guy like you might want to point out), so what are you trying to imply? You should know about how deregulation created the airline industry that we have today(nothing to add yet huh?), the hub and spoke system Another point of mine you'll try and claim later...) and how the number 1 carrier in St. Louis (around 2/3rds of the flights) today came to be and how it affects thisStill nothing?), the simple role of geography and flight distance, that St. Louis is bigger now by population and economy than when it had the global TWA hub with tons of transatlantic flights and was negotiating a Japan route; seriously, St. Louis could "support" all of these routes when it was smaller yet can't now huh? Or maybe it doesn't actually have that much at all to do directly with St. Louis or Charlotte and everything to do with the airline industry but you are using it to try and make a statement about the two of them anyway." You seem to massively misunderstand this point later when you bring the subject of hubs up after me...

Your answer to all of that... Post 112:

"Slow your roll, you're acting like an angry homer that's taking this personally.

The truth is St.Louis could never have supported those flights if not for TWA's hub. Period.

It can't even support a flight to London, yet non-hub cities like Austin, Raleigh, Charleston & Tampa can. Think about that."

Whooosh!!! Like wow, you don't get any of the points being made here do you?

My answer, post 113:

"Nah, I just like calling out posters who make completely unsubstantiated claims to reveal they're just posting their personal opinions not backed by facts... that was easy... Like how I even gave several examples that a person "in the industry for 20 years" would have no problem working from, but you didn't disappointment, you ignored them all and said... 3 lines of absolutely nothing... Seriously, switch out St. Louis in your second line for any of these cities and nothing changes... have you heard of subsidies btw? Do you want to discuss that angle? No, you probably won't... Make a real argument and justify your claims of "support" that I keep shooting holes through."

Your response, post 114:

"You haven't shot holes in anything. If you want O&D numbers, look them up yourself.

How about you explain which of the cities I listed pay subsidies?"

Yeah, I brought up both of these as supported points, guess me relisting all of this can be really helpful for you, doubt it since you just say things like "sad", guess you're one of this people that thinks facts are whatever you believe...

I respond in post 115:

"Oh, getting lazy now eh? You made your nonsense claim in post 94, I called you out on it, you actually have to support your claims... guess things are different in the airline industry...

I brought up O&D numbers for an industry guy like yourself to work (amongst many other options you ignored...) with and explain YOUR claim, as I said then, they're about the same overall. They're usually ranked back to back in every list I saw (Charlotte was first if it makes you feel better) O look, more evidence..., but you being the big industry guy I thought you could bring some more information to the table; especially, since you made the claim to begin with... I guess you can't. Still waiting for anything, aything at all from an "industry guy of 20 years like yourself"

Explain which pay subsidies? Are you serious??? Honestly, do you really work in the airline industry??? Do you want me to break down the financing of Indy's Delta flight to Paris? P&G in Cincy? Pitts transatlantic strategy at the cost of the west coast? The WOW/Iceland Air debacles, Nashville? Austin? or basically just about any of these transatlantic flights???? If you actually were an insider you'd know that STL is doing much, much better than the majority of old legacy hubs that were dehubbed, but you know what? This is still all about the airline industry and says very, very little about the cities in this thread! But that's how you want to portray it, and you got called out for it.

Don't worry, I don't deserve a pat on the back or anything, your argument was a logical fallacy from the beginning so I didn't really have to poke it too much to make it fall apart (and you ironicly keep supporting me in this...)."

Your breathtaking response in post 116:

"The bottom line here is that you are beyond clueless when it comes to this subject, and are clearly in over your head. It's simply pathetic that a Metro of St. Louis's size and stature can't support a flight to London, when many smaller places do. InBev and Mansanto obviously don't see the value in subsidizing one, and the O&D clearly isn't there.

Sad."

Nice name calling start, with your typical no support... Then you literally just repeated your first unsubstantiated claim... really, irony much? Then you go back to my point of subsidies, which you never bother to say anything about at all... no, they don't see the value in just giving another private enterprise free money, and this says absolutely nothing about St. Louis. We can talk about the economic outcome of subsidies A LOT if you want... Then you go back to my O&D point, except you still seem to have missed it... tell me about Charlotte or Raleigh's O&D numbers and how STL is so inferior, don't worry, I'll wait... But I imagine it'll just be your typical deflection, naming calling and no support, because hey, who needs facts when you have beliefs, right? "Sad"