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The top of the SEC, and not just #1, is much better. If we go with the obvious that Clemson and Bama are the top of their respective conferences, who is #2, 3, and 4 in each? This year.
SEC: Georgia, LSU, Florida. (I'd switch for A&M equally)
ACC: Syracuse, Pitt, NC State
The bottom of both is pretty bad this year. UNC and Arkansas wash each other out. But I think Tennessee would whip Louisville. Mississippi versus Duke would be fun to watch, but I'd give a slight edge to Ole Miss. And I think Vandy could take Wake.
I agree with a lot of what you said, with a couple of caveats. Georgia Tech will probably go down before they come back. The new coach is going to have to totally rebuild his team. And I'm not sure about VT. I was really surprised they took a step back this year.
Again, a little hard because Notre Dame is technically an independent, but.. I think you have to consider them as part of the ACC in this. So.. Notre Dame.. Now.. How good were they really? They lost by less to Clemson than Alabama did.. Does that mean they're better than Alabama?
I think we all tend to agree that Notre Dame was a bit of a paper tiger, but.. Based on their single loss and who they lost to.. We can't really say for sure how and where they actually shook out.
But.. I think for this, you consider Notre Dame a part of the ACC. Florida State.. I'll still count them, though I think they will certainly fall off of being considered the 'top' of the ACC.. But, 3 seasons ago, they were the #8 team in the country. Louisville had a few decent years.. Wouldn't put them up there. North Carolina had a few good years, but they've regressed badly.. Miami I'd probably consider top, but.. A tenuous hold on it.
Let's look at bowls with the conferences facing each other..
2014 is as far back as I'll go, just because I don't want to dig this up any further back than that.
Wake Forest beat Texas A&M 55-52
Mississippi State beat Louisville 31-27
Alabama beat Clemson 24-6
Notre Dame beat LSU 21-17
2-2
In 2018
Virginia beat SC 28-0
Texas A&M beat NC State 52-13
Clemson beat Alabama 44-16
2-1 ACC
So.. At least in bowl games, and I'm certainly not saying here that looking at bowl games is a great way, or the best way to look at it.. They're.. Fairly even, with a slight advantage to the ACC. 11-8 ACC in this view.
ACC and SEC are closer than you'd think. The SEC might have a few more teams that are more consistent. You look back from 2014 on, Alabama and Georgia are pretty consistent, other than a somewhat down year for Georgia in '16. But.. In '14.. You had Missouri playing in the SEC Championship. the next 2 years they won 5 and 4 games. Ole Miss has been up, they've been down. Florida's been up, they've been down. Hell, Tennessee came close to winning the East in '16.
Not sure your point or the validity of only counting bowl games. All of the middle tier schools seem to be up and down. You can't rate conferences by only cherry picking those teams who went to bowl games. At least from my position.
As for Notre Dame, I stand by my thought that until they play a full conference schedule and make it to, and win, a conference championship, they shouldn't be included. It just isn't a level playing field.
As I said, bowl games is not a great way of looking at it. But, since being a .500 team is basically the way to make a bowl.. It gives a result of matchups of similar teams between the conferences. And Notre Dame.. Yeah.. I said that, too.. Could argue it, but.. I included them.
and.. Head to head in regular season and bowl games.. SEC is only about 5 wins up on the ACC over the last decade. It is not a runaway that the SEC is head and shoulders above. The ACC will jump up every now and again and be better. Overall, yes, the SEC is generally better. But not by some massive margin.
As I said, bowl games is not a great way of looking at it. But, since being a .500 team is basically the way to make a bowl.. It gives a result of matchups of similar teams between the conferences. And Notre Dame.. Yeah.. I said that, too.. Could argue it, but.. I included them.
and.. Head to head in regular season and bowl games.. SEC is only about 5 wins up on the ACC over the last decade. It is not a runaway that the SEC is head and shoulders above. The ACC will jump up every now and again and be better. Overall, yes, the SEC is generally better. But not by some massive margin.
Agreed.
I can't deny my Notre Dame bias, but they keep proving me correct on the field.
I can't deny my Notre Dame bias, but they keep proving me correct on the field.
I wouldn't argue hard against you on that. Notre Dame gets.. "Benefit of the doubt"?.. Not sure that's the right way to describe what I mean, but.. JUST the fact that they don't play a conference championship doesn't disqualify them in my eyes. Their schedule.. They beat the snot out of Stanford and Syracuse.. But.. Stanford, while they were #7 at the time, wound up unranked, and Syracuse, though ending up at #15.. They aren't all that strong a #15.
They are in no way in the same league as a UCF so far as bad schedule. They're better than that.
I'm still just so happy that UCF lost to shut them up this year. The sad part is.. They barely lost. and had horrible stats in that game, but they still BARELY lost.
Clemson has two of the top freshman WRs next year. One is out of California. The RB Dixon will be a star next year along with Etenienne. I think the offense is going to be better.
Two safeties announced today they will be coming back next year.
You can't change my mind about Notre Dame. They are the only team that gets away with the independent role. And that's only because of who they used to be.
well, there's only like 4 teams that are independent. So.. Notre Dame is the best of them by far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemVegas
Clemson has two of the top freshman WRs next year. One is out of California. The RB Dixon will be a star next year along with Etenienne. I think the offense is going to be better.
Two safeties announced today they will be coming back next year.
And all the current WR's are returning, save for Renfrow and.. Someone else. But.. Good Lord.. Look at what you have to work with even NOT adding new ones in. Ross is going to be a star in the NFL, but he's got another 2 seasons alongside Lawrence.
The defensive line will take something of a hit, but.. The "Next Man up".. I expect they'll figure things out pretty quickly. I don't see him regressing, though.. I don't particularly think he has anywhere to go but down. How much better could he get? Anything more, he hits a next level that's never been seen before.
Anyone honestly think if he was the starter from the word go that he wouldn't have at least been on stage for the Heisman? Not saying he'd have won, but.. He'd have been a finalist.
Why do people care so much if Notre Dame joins a conference? Is it only because they don't have that 13th game on the schedule? I feel like people have been complaining about their independence long before conference championship games, though.
People seem to sweep aside the fact that ND wasn't allowed to join a conference at one point in time.
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