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I haven't followed this thread as closely as I should, but is anyone arguing that those aren't terminal degrees? I think the issue is "not all terminal degrees are equivalent."
Yeah, pretty much.
Nothing I've read really argues against the idea that at a PhD is a trained researcher who has proven their ability to conduct independent academic inquiries, while a JD and MD have completed training that leads to the achievment of an elite professional license, but not training as an academic researcher.
The only real argument is whether to bestow the word "doctorate" on something that's not a research degree.
The only real argument is whether to bestow the word "doctorate" on something that's not a research degree.
It's really just semantics IMO.
No, this is not the issue at all. The legal profession can call its degree anything that it wants, and JD is fine. Doctor of Optometry is fine, as are Doctor of Physical Therapy, Doctor of Divinity, Doctor of Chiropractic, Doctor of Arts (remember that one?) etc . . .
The issue concerns the absurd, offensively self-serving pronouncement of the guild of lawyers that their three-year Mickey Mouse JD with negligible requirements for admission is equivalent to the six-plus-year PhD with its requirement to advance the frontiers of human knowledge.
Last edited by Hamish Forbes; 04-23-2014 at 10:36 AM..
No, this is not the issue at all. The legal profession can call its degree anything that it wants, and JD is fine. Doctor of Optometry is fine, as are Doctor of Physical Therapy, Doctor of Divinity, Doctor of Chiropractic, Doctor of Arts (remember that one?) etc . . .
The issue concerns the absurd, offensively self-serving pronouncement of the guild of lawyers that their three-year Mickey Mouse JD with negligible requirements for admission is equivalent to the six-plus-year PhD.
Well, that is exactly what I am saying. "Dortorate" has come to mean extensive training for academic research and comes with a certain amount of prestige because of it. The ADA wanting to co-opt the word to bestow it on lawyers is precisely the source of conflict, no? The move implies achieving a law degree holds the same level of "scholarship" (I guess that's the right word?) as a PhD. That is basically what they are saying.. these two are the same thing. Unless I am reading these posts wrong, I was under the impression they were saying the two were the same.
Tina, having read your most recent post (above), I think that drawing-out our differences would require very fine parsing. So I won't belabor the point. I appreciate your thoughts -- you always have something worthwhile to say.
Well, that is exactly what I am saying. "Dortorate" has come to mean extensive training for academic research and comes with a certain amount of prestige because of it. The ADA wanting to co-opt the word to bestow it on lawyers is precisely the source of conflict, no? The move implies achieving a law degree holds the same level of "scholarship" (I guess that's the right word?) as a PhD. That is basically what they are saying.. these two are the same thing. Unless I am reading these posts wrong, I was under the impression they were saying the two were the same.
Yup, they may all have Doctor in the degree title but they are not equivalent. The fact that a small minority of JD's do academic-type research or teach in universities doesn't make them equivalent by any stretch.
Tina, having read your most recent post (above), I think that drawing-out our differences would require very fine parsing. So I won't belabor the point. I appreciate your thoughts -- you always have something worthwhile to say.
No problem. And right back at you, I enjoy reading your posts as well.
As someone who's about to receive a JD, I find the PhD comparison absolutely laughable. It's basically a "masters-plus." The first year is extremely challenging. After that, it can be fairly breezy, depending on how hard you want (or need) to challenge yourself.
And any American or Canadian lawyer that calls him/herself "doctor" on the basis of a JD should be tarred and feathered.
Having a law degree really does not matter. In California, one need not even attend law school to qualify for bar admission. See California Business and Professions Code, Article 4. Admission to the Practice of Law, Section 6060 (e)(2)(B) and (C). Rather, it is what you do with your education, however acquired, that counts. See, e.g., Laurence Tribe, who besides earning a J.D. from Harvard, has had a distinguished career as a professor of law and legal practitioner. Laurence H. Tribe Laurence Tribe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Having a law degree really does not matter. In California, one need not even attend law school to qualify for bar admission. See California Business and Professions Code, Article 4. Admission to the Practice of Law, Section 6060 (e)(2)(B) and (C). Rather, it is what you do with your education, however acquired, that counts. See, e.g., Laurence Tribe, who besides earning a J.D. from Harvard, has had a distinguished career as a professor of law and legal practitioner. Laurence H. Tribe Laurence Tribe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
California is one of the few states that does this. Consider also that a lot of UCLA grads are struggling to find employment, much less Joe Schmo who sits for the bar on a lark.
Years, probably not, but at good law schools they do have a certain number of papers that must be approved by a panel of JD's (sometimes ones who also have PHDs) and experts in their field.
And what law schools are those?
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