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Assumptions seem to be the order of the day here. Since when has ANY advisor said "Everyone should do _____". It takes 2 seconds to see what she actually DOES say about CC: https://www.suzeorman.com/blog/how-t...stepping-stone
She says "Can" and "May" and details the pitfalls such as it may take extra time and how to make sure you do it right.
Your posts just come off as being against most students even looking into it, and again I don't get that.
I don't understand why you are basically picking a fight with me. I have not said anything different than some others have said, and I don't see you arguing on and on with them. You seem to have singled me out to argue with over this issue. I do not see anyone else supporting the CC route, either. Sometimes it's not possible to "do it right", especially going to CC for two years.
I just read what Suze said, and I have to say, I disagree with some of it. Even transferring from one four year college to another after two years generally results in some loss of credits. Suze does not seem to understand that four year colleges may require lower-level courses not offered at a specific CC, so that two years at the CC does not equal two years at their institution. Or, as happened to my own daughter (who transferred 4 year colleges) a course at college "A" didn't have the same pre-req as the same course at college "B", so "B" wouldn't accept "A's" credits. She had to take it again. Now she did manage to graduate with just an extra summer, but still.
No matter what you want to read into what I've said, I haven't said "Don't go to CC". I've said, "Be careful" and I've offered some examples, which you seem to really dislike.
I think the point many of us are trying to make is to go in eyes wide open. You have to consider that the majority of college bound students are coming straight from high school. They have to apply to their various colleges early in senior year. Which means making decisions during junior year in high school. Let's assume a student knows in junior year what they want to major in (yes, a somewhat broad assumption, but let's run with it). Most will be likely looking at five or six colleges for their degree. A couple of reach schools, two or three in the zone, and a couple of safe schools. Each one of these schools will have a different program of study for that major. This means comparing five or six programs vs the local CC. Because you have no guarantee which of those programs you will actually get accepted into three years from now (senior year + two years CC), you are at risk of not getting the right pre-reqs.
As Katarina said, many colleges only offer those pre-reqs on a limited rotation. Miss it and you wait a year or more for it to come around again. Parents and students who aren't familiar with how college works may well not understand these subtleties. We did this calculation for our daughter and discovered that CC would turn a four year degree into a five to five and half because of pre-reqs which pretty much wiped out any cost advantage for the CC. And if you include the lost opportunity cost of not starting career until a year later, CC was actually a net loss. Her best friend in college actually started a year before her and will graduate a year after her (six years total) due to missing pre-reqs.
We're not saying people shouldn't choose a CC. All we're saying is eyes wide open and don't assume schedules will work out just because they say everything transfers. It's not the transfer; it's the pre-reqs.
I don't understand why you are basically picking a fight with me. I have not said anything different than some others have said, and I don't see you arguing on and on with them. You seem to have singled me out to argue with over this issue. I do not see anyone else supporting the CC route, either. Sometimes it's not possible to "do it right", especially going to CC for two years.
I just read what Suze said, and I have to say, I disagree with some of it. Even transferring from one four year college to another after two years generally results in some loss of credits. Suze does not seem to understand that four year colleges may require lower-level courses not offered at a specific CC, so that two years at the CC does not equal two years at their institution. Or, as happened to my own daughter (who transferred 4 year colleges) a course at college "A" didn't have the same pre-req as the same course at college "B", so "B" wouldn't accept "A's" credits. She had to take it again. Now she did manage to graduate with just an extra summer, but still.
No matter what you want to read into what I've said, I haven't said "Don't go to CC". I've said, "Be careful" and I've offered some examples, which you seem to really dislike.
What I am about to say only applies to Texas. I Think Texas has a good idea in making the course numbering system uniform at over 136 schools. For example, you take Cal 1 in Amarillo but circumstances force you to move to Huston. Your school in Huston must accept your Cal 1 course taken in Amarillo. Years ago, when I was in NY courses taken in one school of the SUNY system were not guaranteed to transfer to another SUNY school (SUNY = State University of New York)
The Texas Common Course Numbering System website is https://tccns.org/ and hopefully this will help Texas readers.
Last edited by GoldenHair; 10-07-2018 at 07:10 PM..
Reason: you should have your
What I am about to say only applies to Texas. I Think Texas has a good idea in making the course numbering system uniform at over 136 schools. For example, you take Cal 1 in Amarillo but circumstances force you to move to Huston. Your school in Huston must accept your Cal 1 course taken in Amarillo. Years ago, when I was in NY courses taken in one school of the SUNY system were not guaranteed to transfer to another SUNY school (SUNY = State University of New York)
The Texas Common Course Numbering System website is https://tccns.org/ and hopefully this will help Texas readers.
That's interesting. The Colorado higher ed system has articulation agreements with the CCs about giving credit for some courses. The problem remains that while the student may get credit for these courses, in many cases they do not apply to the student's major, and will be used as "elective" credit. The student may still have to take some lower division required courses, even with two years of CC.
The kind of college education where you go to class, do your reading and take your tests is one kind of college eduction. Another kind of college education is where you go to class, do your reading, take your tests, volunteer, attend lecture series beyond your classes, join clubs, obtain leadership positions, participate in competitive athletic or academic events, go to on-campus concerts and art exhibits, etc. etc. It is difficult to have the second kind of college education working full-time.
Did these schools deceive the students on the costs of attending? School loan money doesn't even have to be spent on education costs, you can use them for rent, food, car payments, a trip to Vegas, whatever you want. What responsible parent would go along with watching their child go into high debt to attend college.
The kind of college education where you go to class, do your reading and take your tests is one kind of college eduction. Another kind of college education is where you go to class, do your reading, take your tests, volunteer, attend lecture series beyond your classes, join clubs, obtain leadership positions, participate in competitive athletic or academic events, go to on-campus concerts and art exhibits, etc. etc. It is difficult to have the second kind of college education working full-time.
It is also this second kind of education that separates those who have it from those who don't on resumes. Those are the people I look at and interview first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy
Did these schools deceive the students on the costs of attending? School loan money doesn't even have to be spent on education costs, you can use them for rent, food, car payments, a trip to Vegas, whatever you want. What responsible parent would go along with watching their child go into high debt to attend college.
The kind who takes the long view and recognizes that a quality education of the kind mentioned by JOinGA above will pay off in the long term with more and better job opportunities.
The kind of college education where you go to class, do your reading and take your tests is one kind of college eduction. Another kind of college education is where you go to class, do your reading, take your tests, volunteer, attend lecture series beyond your classes, join clubs, obtain leadership positions, participate in competitive athletic or academic events, go to on-campus concerts and art exhibits, etc. etc. It is difficult to have the second kind of college education working full-time.
This is true. And regarding the two years of CC then transferring, it is possible that one could get a "plain vanilla" BA/BS in a "subject" area (say language arts [English, etc], social studies [history and the like], math, science), in 4, more likely 4 1/2 years that way if you transferred to a school with an articulation agreement, but you might miss out on some interesting lower division courses, in your major and/or in electives. It would be hard to do for a professional major, e.g. nursing or engineering because sometimes the professional courses start freshman or sophomore year. It may also be hard to do for the arts and business majors.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOinGA
The kind of college education where you go to class, do your reading and take your tests is one kind of college eduction. Another kind of college education is where you go to class, do your reading, take your tests, volunteer, attend lecture series beyond your classes, join clubs, obtain leadership positions, participate in competitive athletic or academic events, go to on-campus concerts and art exhibits, etc. etc. It is difficult to have the second kind of college education working full-time.
Yes, thank you. Excellent post. Also, socialize and develop relationships which is also very important.
The kind of college education where you go to class, do your reading and take your tests is one kind of college eduction. Another kind of college education is where you go to class, do your reading, take your tests, volunteer, attend lecture series beyond your classes, join clubs, obtain leadership positions, participate in competitive athletic or academic events, go to on-campus concerts and art exhibits, etc. etc. It is difficult to have the second kind of college education working full-time.
Great point. One of the buzzwords in higher ed these days is "high impact learning". This refers top the learning that occurs outside of the classroom during activities such as undergraduate research, study abroad, service learning, performances for artists, and certain types of capstone projects. Studies suggest these experiences are a critical complement to coursework. One of the big problems that my institution is working with right now is trying to find ways to provide these opportunities for nontraditional (older) students as many of them have schedules that limit their ability to participate to the same degree as traditional undergraduates.
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